dragonrouge Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Please here it is not my intention to enter into dialogues on this or to create arguments.There are those who love foie gras and their rights to eat the product are to be respected at all costs. There are those who do not and their views too should be respected.Here I just would point you to page 5 of todays Ouest France showing the damage caused by the storm and depiciting a foie gras farm and where the roof was taken off and it then shows the conditions in which the ducks or geese are kept.I hope I have been balanced in this posting and as I say I post it not for arguments not for confrontation simply for information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dragonrouge - I think you and I share the same sentiment. It is not something I would try to argue about, but I just wouldn't serve or eat it myself. I suspect a lot us would rather not know too many details...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Just a personal opinion but I think anyone eating meat should visit an abattoir, farm etc and understand how the animal is raised and killed. (I'm not a vegetarian, btw...and I like foie gras) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 With a foot in both camps, I have enjoyed a spot of foie gras maybe once or twice, and no doubt way back when the first birds were stuffed to improve flavour (by egyptians?) it maybe wasn't so deplorable. Of course with popularity, demand creates production that needs to be carefully controlled like Veal or pork so as to allow consumption without revulsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote user="Scooby"]Just a personal opinion but I think anyone eating meat should visit an abattoir, farm etc and understand how the animal is raised and killed. (I'm not a vegetarian, btw...and I like foie gras)[/quote]A confirmed meat eater BUT I visited a sewage farm once, it put me off defecating. ad absurdum[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 AFAIK defacting isn't something you can choose to do or not do [;-)]...well not for long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonrouge Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Scooby as I say not a dialogue or argument. I have visited an abbatoir and for a while whilst I was a young PC before I went into the law my Wednesday detail was to issue licences to move pigs around and then I was in the place all of the shift. I am not a veggie but respect those who are absolutely respect their views. I love meat and know the process.I also know the process of sudden death and that does not put me off trying to live as best a life as I can and respecting other peoples view. I respect yours but throwing asides in such as an abbatoir adds nothing.Have you see the photograph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote user="dragonrouge"] Scooby as I say not a dialogue or argument. [/quote]Some hope, posting a thread like this.......[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote user="dragonrouge"]I respect yours but throwing asides in such as an abbatoir adds nothing.[/quote]As I read it the OP was referring to the conditions that the animals were being kept in, not the rights or wrongs of gavage. IMHO, the customer can influence the conditions that animals and poultry destined for consumption are raised (and slaughtered). If you choose to turn a blind eye - buying the cheapest products, regardless of origin, then you are as culpable as those who are treating their livestock with such disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dragonrouge, I haven't read the paper today, and I couldn't find anything on Ouest France's website. However, I have seen the way foie gras geese are kept and...erm...fed......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonrouge Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Scooby please a simple question have you seen the photograph. Yes or now. Simple really even from afar in the National Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonrouge Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Believe it not Sunday Driver it was intended as such. There is no need to respond just simply see the photograph and make up one own's mind. That was my intention but obviously I go tit so very wrong. It is and has always been a genuine belief that this is not right but I continue to respect those and there are thousands who do eat foie gras and so their beliefs are theirs.We could expand this argument into Halal foods and the like but it would get us no further and I have seen how other religions treat animals.I truly am now sorry I brough this up but seeing the photograph in its brutal format just made me think.................Naturally I now regret doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I think it unlikely that Scooby will be having Ouest France delivered to him in Derbyshire..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I understand your feelings, Dragonrouge, but it's one of those subjects that can become too argumentative. Everyone will have a different point view, particularly with regard to religious practices, and no-one can ever win. I have seen this kind of discussion turn abusive........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 but where do you draw the line with respecting peoples' right to do what they want irrespective? As an individual you have to chose your own lines, and as a society too. But to do so we need to be informed surely and know what we are doing. Jamie Oliver has shown that education of the facts can change how we understand things and then make more educated choices. We should be able to discuss things, exchange ideas and knowledge, agree and disagree- and hopefully all learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonrouge Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Odile I agree but on this forum things do sometimes turn and it becomes a battle ground. It was not my intention so to do. Sunday Driver I have the photograph in front of me shall I post it then all the parcipants then decide for themselves. That might be the better way.In the autumn how many of us have been to say to Lecrec and seen the promotion of carcases of ducks and their livers displayed elsewhere and the French picking over them. I would not wish or attempt to question the French for I live in their country. But equally please do not question our approaches in the UK.Things will never change and last week I witnessed our French neighbours seeing that the chickens had stopped laying and thus feed every day was just throwing money away and what happened some 20 chickens were to be seen on the washing line and new ones will take their place in the spring.That is their approach and obviously some sense comes into being but to see ducks in cages of very limited space and what follows is unacceptable. But my views and of no consequence.However I do not eat veal will never eat veal will never eat foie gras nor St Jacques that have not been taken by hand as against trawled. But there again my views and not important.I will not spray poison on the potager blight or no blight but my views and my views only and as I say we are all entitled to our own views and I support those alternative views without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 The issue of keeping ducks and geese in confined cages is very different issue to the rights and wrongs of gavage. Traditional gavage requires the birds to be free range for the period up to the final 4-5 months (where they are fed by funnel) as the birds naturally gorge themselves on grass during this period which causes the crop to enlarge. The birds chosen for gavage are those that have a very elastic oesophagus and no gag reflex (hence will suffer minimal distress when the feeding tube is inserted). They are also birds that, naturally, gorge themselves to see through a cold winter - hence have a very elastic crop that will expand dramatically to accommodate the additional feed. Keeping ducks / geese in very confined cages is not a necessary part of producing foie gras - in the same way that it's not a necessary part of producing eggs. That sort of treatment is down to the greed of the farmers trying to maximise production, whilst minimising space and effort.With regard to the culling of chickens - we kept chickens, and, if they became sick or old we killed them. Better that, than leave them to be hen-pecked. There is a very good reason that phrase came into being - hens will literally peck to death a sick / old chicken. Far more humane to kill it. All methods of killing for food could be described as cruel. Even fish - lobster is killed by plunging into boiling water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dragonrouge please post the picture. And your opinion does matter - like grains of sand or drops of water they all add up. And things do change - too slowly perhaps, but they do. Silence will not change things-Best regards Odile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonrouge Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Scooby you and I have severe differences of opinion. Lobsters are better taken care of in a different way. You will not win the battle with me neither will I with you so let it go.Live in France Scooby every day of your life and understand the approach.But in Buxton to make a judgment (spelt in the legal way) is without balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I too thought the days of putting live lobsters in boiling water was behind us.Here are a few photos in sequence of foie gras production. I will post a link to each photo instead of the actual photo here because Warning they are a little distressing , at least to me they are. But true! src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/HIF/Dcp_0983.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/HIF/Dcp_0982.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/HIF/Dcp_1022.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote user="dragonrouge"]Scooby you and I have severe differences of opinion. Lobsters are better taken care of in a different way. You will not win the battle with me neither will I with you so let it go.Live in France Scooby every day of your life and understand the approach.But in Buxton to make a judgment (spelt in the legal way) is without balance.[/quote]You are entitled to your opinion dragonrouge and I'm not arguing with you. All I am saying is that everyone should make an informed judgment about everything they eat. As an aside, I may not live in France permanently but that doesn't mean I am unaware of rural French ways - which are not so different from rural English ways. My brother has a farm and we have often helped in the slaughter and plucking and preparing geese, turkeys, ducks etc. We have also slaughtered our own livestock. From the age of seven, my niece used to help. I have also accompanied our (French) neighbour when out hunting - which isn't quite as some people would think. Our neighbour keeps his own woodcocks to use as a lure for the wild woodcocks. They are tied by their legs to wires and are then pulled up to the height of the hide at the top of the palombier (about 20 metres) by a gearing mechanism operated from within the hide. Their flapping attracts the wild woodcock over the hide. Kind? Perhaps not. Effective? Quite definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Scooby, there is no perhaps about it. It is traditional, it is very skilled (apparently) but it is extremely cruel, and IMO should be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 We'll agree to disagree Odile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Using live birds as a lure, upside down high up in the air flapping in total panic, is too barbaric to be acceptable in most peoples view, including the French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well one was put out of it's misery - he accidentally shot it!! AFAIK it's common practice in the area we are.Seems a conflict between rural French and townies - Brits or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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