sid Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 A coroner has branded the Honda Pan as inherently dangerous! I find this quite shocking, considering the number that are in use. I can only assume that the additional equipment weight has contributed to the instability.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/6600897.stmSid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 This has been known in Germany for a few years now. Honda Germany told riders that with luggage fitted they should ride no quicker than something like 120 kmh on the limit free autobahns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1steveuk Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 I thought this had been done and dusted, both the ST1100 and the 1300 have proved very very unstable. There's a policeman friend of mine who lives in Le Bugue, who was telling me they had been told to be extremely careful with them, three years ago!!!!!! It's not the first time either, the police had problems with the K100 BMW, if the rider tried to select top gear when it was already in it, it drop to first, and locked the wheel, that and some couldn't get used to the torque reaction of the shaft drive and a few were spat off........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 I'm sorry if you already know it, but it is news to me.Sid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1steveuk Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 [quote user="sid"]I'm sorry if you already know it, but it is news to me.Sid[/quote]Sorry I didn't mean you Sid, I meant I thogutht this had been sorted out byt the "powers that be", but those wheels do grind slowly!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Janet Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 I hadn't heard about the instability problems with the police ST1300's, but I am surprised at your comment, 'f1steveuk', that the ST1100 was '...very, very unstable...' Where did that come from?I owned two Pans over 10 years and never experienced, or read about such instability.Even with a top box, panniers, a tank bag and a pillion, I never had instability. (A pig to pick up if you dropped it, though!)I'm surprised Sunday Driver hasn't contributed....RegardsDavid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 What I read on the German forums was talking only about the 1300s and not the 1100s. Steve what is this about torque reaction? The only time that I ever had any roque reaction was at a standstill on my old 1977 R75. I have never had any on the modern bikes and not while moving on any shaft driven bike with a front to back crankshaft. Do goldwings and Moto Guzzis suffer this? BMWs don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1steveuk Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 It was the policeman from Le Bugue who said the met had had trouble with the ST1100, but I believe they may have been modified.The gearchange problem was the K100 only, and the torque reaction incidents were with the largest boxer engined RTs, it was to do with the torque reaction of the drive shaft to the rear wheel, can't remember which way around it was, but some riders were half way around a bend, and if in the wrong gear, when they really yanked the throttle open, the torque reaction was pulling them down, somtimes enough for the pegs to ground, and in a few cases, dig in. I suspect Wings and Guzzis must suffer torque reaction, but the police don't use them, and apprently, you REALLY had to yank the throttle. Have to say I did my advance motorcycle course at Hendon, slow riding on a Triumph Saint, and a Panther 600 single (!!!!!) and then being told to ride 30 miles, losing a point each time we used the brakes, you learned a lot about anticipation that way, but we were always told to be smooth with the throttle, so why a policeman would snap it open like that, I really don't know.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 The problems with the ST1300 that the Police have experienced would, under normal circumstances, not have any adverse effects on a civilian bike. The high speed weave, that has been well documented, was caused by the weight of the equipment on the rear damper/spring, which was altered to a Police Spec' damper/spring and 99% of Police bikes having incorrect tyre pressures, some as much a 10 psi out. The general concensus is that the coroner was a bit careless (a bit simplistic) in his verdict. It would have been better for him to note that as more and more police-specific equipment gets loaded onto the back of the motorcycle, the aerodynamic Vmax of the motorcycle drops. Thus, the training curriculum for police officers needs to stress that it is possible to achieve higher top speeds with the engine than the motorcycle can safely travel at with all the police specific equipment fitted. Indeed, these issues are included in the ACPO guidlines for motorcycle officers.The Merseyside incident has generated so much of a whispering campaign that Honda have formally withdrawn the ST1300 from the Police market, having decided they can make more money selling them to the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 I have never heard of the alleged problems with the ST1100 but the problems with the police and the ST1300 have received a lot of publicity in the biking press (particularly MCN) in UK for sometime.On a related subject, Yamaha warn owners of the FJR that they should not use the top box with the side panniers. Makes you wonder if they knew they were designing a bike that was suitable for touring! Mind you, having bought the full luggage when I bought my FJR I consigned the top box to the attic...it looked like one of those containers they have on ships to hold life rafts and was probably less aerodynamic! [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deauville Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 S.D. - exact! - it was always thus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winegum Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 I bet coppers giving chase on foot have a similar high-speed weave with all that extra equipment they have to carry! Has anyone noticed if they run in straight lines??!Jude [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socket Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 There is no real problems with the ST 1300, or the earlier 1100 . The only time these police bikes are dangerous is when you notice them in your rearview mirror !! [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wiggy Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Hi Bob.Having owned both a Guzzi 850 T3 and a Beemer R100Rs, as you say you do get torque reaction quite severly on the BMs when at a standstill, and if the carb's were out of balance it was even worse, the Guzzi's also used to rock when the throttle was blipped while at a standstill. Now the modern bikes don't suffer with the old Rockin & Rollin, somthing to do with a counter weight system. Mr Wiggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now