French Inheritance laws on poprerty.

[boblalux]

We have lived in France for 10 years now, and 3 months ago bought a  house in the Burgundy.  Although my second wife has no problems with my 3 adult children from my first marriage, there is the problem of inheritance, should I die.  Can I get round this by forming a SCI AFTER the purchase, so that my wife is sole inheritor, and only after her death, the 'pie being carved up' to my children?   We have a 'Donation Entre Epoux' with 'usufruits' thus allowing her use of the property, but that doesn't really help - should I die, my wife may wish to leave the Burgundy.  The house would then be sold and the 'pie' would then be carved up by my children, leaving her with a problem.  We have a small life insurance (on each other);  by French law, is this independent of the inheritence laws?

 

[parsnips]

[quote user="boblalux"]

We have lived in France for 10 years now, and 3 months ago bought a  house in the Burgundy.  Although my second wife has no problems with my 3 adult children from my first marriage, there is the problem of inheritance, should I die.  Can I get round this by forming a SCI AFTER the purchase, so that my wife is sole inheritor, and only after her death, the 'pie being carved up' to my children?   We have a 'Donation Entre Epoux' with 'usufruits' thus allowing her use of the property, but that doesn't really help - should I die, my wife may wish to leave the Burgundy.  The house would then be sold and the 'pie' would then be carved up by my children, leaving her with a problem.  We have a small life insurance (on each other);  by French law, is this independent of the inheritence laws?

 

[/quote]

Hi,

     Life insurance is outside the inheritance system (law and tax). It's a pity you didn't ask your question before purchasing! You will need to find a good english-fluent notaire to discuss the SCI possibility, but I don't think it can by-pass the forced heirship rules, however, I'm not an expert on SCIs. If as you say you both get on well with your children, there are other ways to deal with the problem. If they are willing to subscribe to a "pacte de famille" whereby they agree to "postpone " their inheritance rights, the notaire can draw up a will with a "legs residuel" whereby your wife can inherit the house in full title and can sell ormortgage it (but not give or leave it by testament--except to your children). These are complicated matters , so a good english - fluent notaire is essential.

     If your wife was to sell in order to return to the UK , she and your chilren could settle up financially once back in the UK.

       

[idun]

IF you die first and your wife manages to get 'everything' and then leaves it to your children. If your wife still lived in France when she died then they will have to pay 60% inheritence tax, less a very small allowance, around 1300€.

You are right to get onto this, get advice from more that one notaire.

[parsnips]

Hi,

 I should have mentioned , with a "legs residuel" , when your wife dies your children inherit what is left of the "legs" as if it had come directly from you, so they get the full direct line tax allowances.

[idun]

Yes, but wouldn't that would only be on the father's half and if the step mother left her half then the 60% would come into play again? Just something else to think about perhaps!

[parsnips]

[quote user="idun"]Yes, but wouldn't that would only be on the father's half and if the step mother left her half then the 60% would come into play again? Just something else to think about perhaps![/quote]

Hi,

    The OP's question was about how his wife could sell the house without sharing the proceeds with her step-children. With the legs residuel she owns the whole house and can sell it without sharing.  Once sold she owes them nothing (unless the will stipulates otherwise).  If she wishes to eventually let the step-children have something , she can simply do so if she becomes UK resident in the future, by will or gift ; or, if she stays in France she could put her savings into french life insurance which she can leave to them without the 60% tax.

[Les]

"Can I get round this by forming a SCI AFTER the purchase, so that my

wife is sole inheritor, and only after her death, the 'pie being carved

up' to my children?"

I know a couple who did this successfully, a long time after the original purchase.

[idun]

Yes, but, as far as I am aware this would disinheriting this man's kids and that is not legal in french law, unless something has changed radically. AND the kids could go after the step mother anyway for their money if their father died first if they believed that they were being disinherited.

That the kids have to wait these days is an improvement, but I have never read where they can be disinherited, please show me this new rule/law.

It sounded to me like this property had been bought initially as a joint venture, once again I may be wrong about that.

[Loiseau]

Some non-French friends of mine managed to change their marriage regime after purchasing their French property.

I am not sure why this was a useful ploy (it is first and only marriage for each of them, so no complications), but could it be an option here?

Angela

[Pickles]

[quote user="Loiseau"]Some non-French friends of mine managed to change their marriage regime after purchasing their French property.

I am not sure why this was a useful ploy (it is first and only marriage for each of them, so no complications), but could it be an option here?

Angela[/quote]

IIRC, you can only do this in a straightforward way if there are no children. When there are children, things become more complicated.

Regards

Pickles

[Loiseau]

My friends had three children already at the time they did it.

But, indeed, it may be a different story if children from another marriage are involved, as is the OP's case.

Angela

[idun]

This is what a notaire told us when I used to worry a lot about inheritance and ending up getting 'stuck' in France if something happened to my husband.

We could change our marriage regime, BUT it would have to go to court to make sure that our children's interests were being protected if our children were minors. AND our children would have to agree if they were major.

You cannot disinherit kids in France and it is a 'right' in France to inherit from a parent, law from 1804?

I find myself mid Channel on lots of things these days. I do understand why this man's wife would want to move on, goodness knows, I would have wanted that option. BUT I firmly believe that the french have it right about kids being protected. My husband had a step father and we know all about being a step kid when a parent dies. I want my kids protected if I die first and my husband remarries. My kids should get my half when he dies! As I say, I am mid channel.

So change all you all want, but kids do take parents or their spouse to court to get their rights in France and why not.

Has this poster realised that if his wife dies first, then if his wife has no children, her family will have rights over her money too, it goes both ways.

[parsnips]

[quote user="idun"]This is what a notaire told us when I used to worry a lot about inheritance and ending up getting 'stuck' in France if something happened to my husband.

We could change our marriage regime, BUT it would have to go to court to make sure that our children's interests were being protected if our children were minors. AND our children would have to agree if they were major.

You cannot disinherit kids in France and it is a 'right' in France to inherit from a parent, law from 1804?

I find myself mid Channel on lots of things these days. I do understand why this man's wife would want to move on, goodness knows, I would have wanted that option. BUT I firmly believe that the french have it right about kids being protected. My husband had a step father and we know all about being a step kid when a parent dies. I want my kids protected if I die first and my husband remarries. My kids should get my half when he dies! As I say, I am mid channel.

So change all you all want, but kids do take parents or their spouse to court to get their rights in France and why not.

Has this poster realised that if his wife dies first, then if his wife has no children, her family will have rights over her money too, it goes both ways.[/quote]

Hi,

      The last sentence above is not correct--even without a will the poster would automatically inherit 100% of his late wife's estate. This has been the case since the last reform of successions.