Inheritance

[Hester]

Hello. I have spent the afternoon reading through posts on the above subject as I have decided that it's time we took our "heads out of the sand" and thought about the issue of what happens financially when one of us dies.

We'd always taken the view that, as we don't have lots to leave and that there is now some protection in France for the spouse that is left, we didn't really need to worry too much.

However, the more I think about it, the more I realise that when one of us dies the other is going to have quite a bit less pension income, and the need to hang onto savings rather than having to immediately give some to the children, will be very important. I was also a bit concerned to read in one of the posting that we may not have much time left to implement the change of marriage regime should we wish to do so (ten years from purchase or French residency?).

Unfortunately when we bought our house back in 2003 we bought it indivision.

We then came to live in France in 2005.

I have read about what seems to be our two best options;a gift between spouses or a change of marriage regime. There seem to be a few people posting on this forum who are very knowledgeable about these issues and I would be grateful for opinions on these two options given:

We are married; two children. We would like the house and savings to pass onto the remaining spouse with the children inheriting on the death of the second spouse.

We have very uncomplicated finances. viz a small house worth around 90,000 euros and a small savings account.

If anyone knows how the two options compare in relation to fees payable on the death of the first spouse that would be very helpful too.

We will need to see the Notaire, but from experience I find that other people's opinions are useful to have beforehand. Regards Hester.

[Val_2]

From my current experience I actually benefitted by having an english normal marriage contract and two children from this marriage. We did Donation entre Epoux some years ago and I have life time use of my home whilst owning 50% and the children have 25% each until I die when they inherit 50/50. If I wanted to sell I need their permission to do so.

I suggest you see a notaire asap and see what régime is best for your circumstances. So far I have had no problems with either the bank,the impôts and any other officials but you should be aware that inheritance issues kick in within a few days of the death of the first spouse and if that person is the registered owner of the family car, the survivor has to re-register in their name once the notaire has done his bit. If your bank account is named as M et Mme I urge you to change it to M ou Mme so you can continue to use it without it being blocked although any bank cards have to be re-issued in the survivor's name and the official account title.

The property is valued within a week or so of death and there is a limit of just over €300,000 before tax is payable.You also have to declare bank accounts, assetts etc held in other countries.

[parsnips]

Hi,

     I agree with Val_2 that in your case a "Donation entre époux " is the best , and least expensive, option (about 280€ for you both). Also the joint car registration and bank accounts. You do , in fact , have up to 6 months to declare a succession (via a notaire if there is a house involved)  .What does have to done quickly is to obtain the "Certificat de décès " and then the "Acte de décès".   There is no inheritance tax between spouses and each child has 159 325€ tax-free (to reduce to 100 000€ if Hollande is elected) more than enough to protect your whole estate from tax. 

[Val_2]

The certificate déces was 15 copies and comes from the town where the deceased died if in a hospital there etc. I also had to get an attestation from the doctor that the death was natural and not suicide but no cause is given.The bank asked for this because insurance policies were involved and they want proof it was not suicide to pay off debts etc. You also have only 6 days in which a body may be kept before it has to be embalmed and this is the max time the hospital will keep it. A pompes funèbre will then take a body,do the necessary which costs approx €300 and then charge by the day for storage until burial/cremation.

[Hester]

Thank you for your postings, it's looking like the Donation entre époux could be our best option, with other things like french bank account and car to think about. (Does it have to be valued also?)  Can I ask in that case would that mean that the children would have to take their share of any savings and that this is then 3/4 (between them) of half of the joint savings account. Regards Hester.

[Val_2]

In my case, the vehicles were not valued as two belong to me anyway and the works lorry is subject to a commercial loan which came under the business side of things. My notaire was not interested in the vehicles, just the property and anything else of value in the UK or elsewhere but if you have an expensive jointly owned vehicle it may have to be included, depends on your particular case. Again savings accounts are for the bank and your notaire to liase over and the inheritors will probably get something unless it is protected. My friend was widowed and her husband had thousands stashed in an account in the UK from the sale of property over there - she got a bill for over €17000 to pay but they did not have a french will of any kind and she suffered a freeze on everything until it was fiscally and notarilly sorted out.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Hester"]

Thank you for your postings, it's looking like the Donation entre époux could be our best option, with other things like french bank account and car to think about. (Does it have to be valued also?)  Can I ask in that case would that mean that the children would have to take their share of any savings and that this is then 3/4 (between them) of half of the joint savings account. Regards Hester.

[/quote]

Hi,

     The donation entre époux applies to the whole estate of the first deceased spouse, including their part of the house , car, bank accounts , and investments.   The survivor has a choice of how, and how much, to inherit (up to and including everything ) usually all in "usufruit" --life interest.   Where the assets are "consumable " like cash at the bank and cars etc the "usufruit" is in the form of a "quasi-usufruit " which allows the survivor to dispose of the assets as if they were the owner.    To clarify this it is best to include the phrase "en usufruit ou quasi-usufruit selon les règles del'article 587 Code Civil" in the donation document.   So, no, the children don't have to get anything at the first death, only after the second.

[Hester]

Many thanks for your help Parsnips and Val2. Regards Hester.