England Rugby, where do we go from here?

[Quillan]

Well I guess that really it should be "Where does the Northern Hemisphere go from here". I thought England were in for a real thrashing like 60 something so we did better than I thought. The wonder of TV and playback is that we can see that the AB's 16th man was right in most of his decisions about England's penalties but I though the amount of yellow cards was uncalled for. We won't mention his comment about sending another 4 players off if he wanted too.

The AB's got away with quite a few things, coming in from the side, touching the ball (when they shouldn't - mind you I could have done with not touching the ball at any time [;-)]) etc. Lucky for England that Carter was not on form else it would have been plus another 17 points. Mind you his performance does not bode well for my home team USAP and the Leicester game.

Loved the Welsh game, best match by far and they deserved their win.

[UlsterRugby1999]

Now now Quillan - easy on - Alain Rolland warned both teams (and we all heard him say it) about hands and feet in rucks, about cynical play and he gave what he said he would. Toby Floods mid air tackle was as cynical as it was a disgrace. He was air borne when he tackled and made no effort at all to try and tackle properly. Why, because he knew he was beaten and that another breakaway try would be scored and he guessed that Rolland would only give a penalty. Rolland decision was spot on. Both sides were guilty of offences in the rucks and malls but we all saw the kick in the ruck and so did Rolland. If you are going to offend at least have the sense not to do it when the ref is standing 3 feet from you and in full view.

Its not right to blame the ref for the result yesterday. LIke Ireland, England were beaten by a much fitter, polished and hungry side. Their cover in the breakdown was awesome and their hunger for the ball was also awesome. Unlike Ireland thought, England were not destroyed. England fronted up to them and came close a few times but spilled balls from Sakey and Co into the gleefully waiting hands of any All Black is not going to help.

Martin Johnston, in various post match interviews, hasnt slated off Alain Rolland but has accepted that indiscipline, lack of fitness, wasted chances and the most incredible All Black defence was the English undoing on Saturday. I agree, but I also think that in that show at Twickers, you guys should take heart that there were many signs of the Phoeinx emerging from the ashes. The 6N's will be a good showground for the new England trust me.

And that doesnt look good for the Irish. The Welsh have two things that neither England nor Ireland showed in these Autumn tests. Balls and belief.

[Quillan]

Hey come on the loosing side always blames the ref [;-)] I just thought he let the AB's get away with a few things that he shouldn't have or perhaps the AB's are better at hiding round the blind side, then perhaps the ref does not have the advantage of TV in these cases. England's discipline was, I agree, appalling and the better side won and we were lucky to get away with such a low points margin. Actually the first couple of minutes of the game (apart from that nasty clash of heads) was brilliant for England and I am sure that like many I thought for a brief second or two we might be in with a chance.

As you say the AB's defence is fantastic. I wonder if their tactic is to plod a bit in the first half to watch and probe the opposition to gauge their strengths and weaknesses then come out the second half to play rugby. To me this seems to be the tactic that they use virtually every time. I liked Moores comment last weekend (I think) when the other guy said the AB's moved up a gear in the second half, he said no, two gears.

Well theres some serious work to be done in all camps before the 6N this year.

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote]I wonder if their tactic is to plod a bit in the first half to watch and probe the opposition to gauge their strengths and weaknesses then come out the second half to play rugby. To me this seems to be the tactic that they use virtually every time[/quote]

Interesting comment as this was our topic of conversation last night. They seemed to do just that in all their tests. Size us up, spot the weaknesses and deliver the killer blows. Just look at the Irish match. We never went wing side once, and where did they thump us, wing side. Tommy Bowe was running in from the wing into the centres positions to try and get ball. What a waste.

Thank God there are 3 years before the next RWC, we need them. Every last minute of them [:(]

 

[Gardian]

It hasn't been too good for England, or for that matter any of the NH nations, with the exception of Wales. However, the situation reminds me a bit of Woodward's initial period in charge - most of us forget that we were far from dominant back then.

As UR99 says, the Six Nations will tell us a lot more about where the sides are. At the moment though, you have to say that it's hard to think of too many England players who are obvious Lions selections, whereas Wales probably have at least half a dozen.

[Quillan]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]

[quote]I wonder if their tactic is to plod a bit in the first half to watch and probe the opposition to gauge their strengths and weaknesses then come out the second half to play rugby. To me this seems to be the tactic that they use virtually every time[/quote]

Interesting comment as this was our topic of conversation last night. They seemed to do just that in all their tests. Size us up, spot the weaknesses and deliver the killer blows. Just look at the Irish match. We never went wing side once, and where did they thump us, wing side. Tommy Bowe was running in from the wing into the centres positions to try and get ball. What a waste.

Thank God there are 3 years before the next RWC, we need them. Every last minute of them [:(]

[/quote]

And its so clinical as well, the surgeon stands and sizes up the task for 40 minutes then has a cup of tea and pops out to do the operation with skill, finesse and speed. So fast in fact that the rest are left looking around thinking "what was all that about...... shite they just scored (again)". The whistle goes he packs his bag and toddles off to the hotel for a few beers.

Actually virtually all the tries they scored in the second half of all the games, you have to admit, were magical. Just a shame at the moment we can't quite match them.

My biggest concern in the immediate future is Carter, I just hope he gets his boot sorted out and gets a bit consistent at scoring for our game against Leicester on the 14th.

[UlsterRugby1999]

Aye Quillan Dan Carter looked a very tired man and rightly so too I guess. He's one of those few that come along and make you sit up. Just like Johnnie Wilkinson and Richie McCaw. We are blessed with some phenominal players who just light up the pitch.

 

[plod]

I don't think Carter is playing this weekend.

England look very callow at the moment, the only crumb of comfort is that none of the 6N teams are up to much with the possible exception of the Welsh. This should give us the opportunity to gain some confidence. I think MJ needs to dispense with Borthwick who is not an international lock forward; I would like to see him looking forward, Phil Vickery is not going to be around for the 2011 RWC. Toby Flood is not an international fly-half whereas "wonderboy" is and he should play. He'll be fitter then; I would also ditch Noon who gives us very little. My team would be:

Armitage, Simpson-Daniel, Hipkiss, Flutey (?), Strettle, Cipriani, Ellis. Stephens (Wood?) Hartley, Sheridan, Shaw, Kennedy, Rees, Haskell, Narraway.

I'm not sure if they are all fit.

I hope you notice that a certain West Country team are going well at the moment.

C'mon Glaaawwwsss!

[UlsterRugby1999]

Yes plod - whats the craic with you. Imagine you getting a Glaws plug in. Whats your view on Somerville.

[plod]

We only need him to cover for the occasional game as we have Nieto and Wood as first choice!!!!

[Quillan]

[quote user="plod"]I don't think Carter is playing this weekend. [/quote]

He is not playing on the 14th either, never mind.

[plod]

That'll be about £33,000 per game then!

[Quillan]

Well he better perform when he does play for that sort of money. USAP is Catalan and they are quite a vocal lot and certainly don't hold back. When Monty played it used to make me laugh, when he came on the stade sighed or more to the point the women did, blonde blue eyed fit chap. When he couldn't kick you should have heard them, booing was the least of his worries.

[Renaud]

Shame that Wilkinson is still crocked. I guess that Johnson used Flood as he is part of the future. Hodgson would have been better than Flood at flyhalf provided that there was a good kicker of penalties elsewhere in the team. However Hodgson has has plenty of opportunities but has never made the position his own.