french property deeds

[christineG]

hello everyone

I wonder if someone can help.

We bought our house about 6 years ago and have never received the deeds from the notaire..is this normal and is it best to leave them with him as he will have to store them corectly

thankyou in advance ECG

[Clarkkent]

Hi ChristineG

This is a question that is asked quite regularly on this forum.

As I understand it, the concept of "deeds" - documents proving ownership - doesn't exist in France, so you won't be getting any.

What you will (or should) receive is a copy of the contract you entered into.

Ownership of your property is registered at the Hypotheque (Land Registry). You may be able to get a copy of the entries on that register.

[P-D de Rouffignac]

What you normally receive is a document called your 'titre de propriété' from the Notaire who handled the sale. This is a copy of the documents filed with the local land registry ('conservateur des hypothèques') and does indeed contain the 40 or 50 pages you signed and initialled at the Notaire's office when completing the purchase of your property. A copy of this document, stamped by the Notaire and with a note of the number under which it is filed at the local land registry, is usually sent to you along with the Notaire's final account for his fees and expenses (including filing) 4 to 6 months after completing the sale. He would also normally have given you an 'attestation' (several copies) to tide you over in the meanwhile before the 'titre de propriété' arrives, to prove you are the owner, and to help in your dealings with the bank, utilities etc.

If you don't have a copy of the 'titre' it is likely one is available at the Notaire's and you can ask for it. Essential if you were to put the property up for sale, in case of death/inheritance, divorce/separation, wishing to apply for a loan secured on the property etc etc.

Hope this info helps - P-D de R;

[Anton Redman]

It is normal. It is a sort of inertia selling - if he or she has the paper work they will probably get the next sale - I took the view that he is more likely to have a fire proof safe than me and I have a copy of the Compris and Acte anyway.

Deeds meaning the paper work which proves you are the owner have also almost died out in the UK because most fo the Uk has a land registry

[P-D de Rouffignac]

Not such a good idea, Monsieur Redman. Notaire's offices can burn down, documents even in fireproof safes not recovered. My local notaires have literally shelves full of documents, going back 50 years to when the firm was founded, not even sure they are all in fireproof storage.

And without knowing the land registry file reference number stamped on the 'titre' it could be a tiresome job trying to trace the originals, assuming you even know which registry to ask.  

P-D de R.

[Anton Redman]

I though the only place notaire's offices were regularly  burnt was Corsica 

No big deal. I know the plot numbers in the plan cadestrial. I am on four kissnig terms with the lady who sold us the house. Ex husband a little peeved with me  becaused he tried to teese me about the Engish not understanding what a bidet is used for.pointed ouit that as an only child parents who were in their mid forties when I was born there was a sporting chance they had come to terms with them. reduced ex wife and two daughters to near collapse 

[christineG]

Thankyou everyone for the helpful advice..iam going out to the house later this month and will look through our papers to see what we were given when we purchased it..I may also have a trip to the notairs to make sure they have copies of the house ownership documents

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, the original post prompted a thought that we hadn't received any copy of the Acte D'Authentique or Deed of adoption of 'La Communaute Universelle' following the purchase of an off-plan apartment in July 2007. More importantly, my french accountant also pointed out that the notaire owed us 950 euros as they had overestimated legal fees at the time of the purchase (something which is very common - apparently). It was only when I wrote (recorded delivery) pointing these various things out that I received both the paperwork and the 950 euros.

I think it is important to at least have a copy of what you have signed (or was signed by proxy on your behalf) for your records, but the 950 euros was what really surprised, delighted but also slightly irritated me. I wonder when or indeed if we would have received that money had I not asked for it and not had an on-the-ball accountant who told me about it.

I wonder how many other unsuspecting souls are actually owed money by notaires, never mind any paperwork! Might be worth people checking that out.

[Gardengirl]

We received the refund for the over-estimate a few months afterwards, unprompted; not a lovely big sum like your's though, sadly!

[mint]

We didn't get our refund back from the notaire for over 18 months but, when it came, it was in excess of 6000 euros (yes, the number of noughts is correct)!

I was thrilled, especially as, when we bought the euros, the exchange rate was a lot better than when we received the refund.  Therefore the "excess" euros had been purchased at an advantageous rate.

Not only that, our Brit neighbours who bought at the same time and at roughly the same price from the same English builder only had 200 euros back!

So, what happened?  Tell you what, I asked no questions, just put the lolly in the bank and enjoyed spending every centime of it![:D]

[Jason Hamery]

I recently came across this old post regarding French title deeds.

In my experience, your French Notaire is the first port of call. Few French Notaires actually communicate in English however.

I was able to obtain a copy of my French property's title deeds using a French land registry search service. There is a small cost to be paid for the service, but unlike my French notaire, the lawyer who carry out these searches is very responsive and all communication was in English. His website is www.france-land-registry.com

The deeds was delivered to me by email within a few days and I was able to check that no charges or mortgages are recorded against title.

[Alan Zoff]

The Notaire tried to charge me for property tax that was the responsibility of the seller. When I pointed out the rules - which he surely must have known - he backed down, but it did make me wonder if the Notaire had some reason for favouring the French seller over a foreign purchaser.

[idun]

Alan Zoff, it is usual, common practice, custom, to split the taxe fonciere, OK it is not how it is stated in the rules, but notaires will, I reckon in general automatically do it without asking, as everyone knows that that is what will happen.

So I would suggest that it was absolutely nothing to do with your nationality, just your lack of knowledge of the way things are done.

You were quite within your rights to say no, but I daresay all parties would have been surprised, but there you go.

[Alan Zoff]

Thanks Idun. I wasn't aware of the custom to split it but he was asking me to pay the whole lot.

[idun]

They usually count the days and split them, when we sold in June, our buyers paid something like 187/365 based on the previous year's bill. We still got the bill at the end of the year, and had a little to pay, but it was a bonus for us, as IF the buyers had said no, then we would have had to pay the lot.