Insurance companies providing cover for CDH/B&B's

[Mike1958]

Can anyone help in providing/recommending the details of a good policy to provide cover for CDH/TDH and B&B?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Mike (31)

[Will]

When we did B&B/CdH (though not TdH) we just added the relevant clause to our normal household policy with AGF. Simple and cheap. I can't imagine it's any different with most other French insurers.

[Gastines]

Agent from Groupama visited the house, counted the rooms and added onto our ordinary house  policy. Not a huge amount I hasten to add. Insurance here seems to be cheaper than UK and on the only claim we have made, no £50-£100 held back and full payment received in 3 days.

Regards.5mins St.Malo.

[Cerise]

AGF also added ours on plus the requisite bit for poinsoning people with TdH! (this in case Mr Cerise does the cooking[6])   From memory think we pay about extra 50 euros a year.

[Cassis]

We did the same - just told our insurance company.  The additional fee was peanuts.

[Miki]

A while back, I offered a little warning to people with Gîtes and C d'hôtes who believe they have assurance with good, sufficient cover with a tight and tidy title.

For instance, if your salary is dependant entirely on your earnings with said Gîtes and C d'hôtes, do you have cover for loss of earnings for up to one year or more ? Some or rather most operators, not signed with C de Com, may well find they have in years gone by, not been allowed to have that kind of cover. As well as assistance domicile if required. As this kind of cover was seen as professional and not for the people not registered.

See how much franchise they have put against your losses of say, glass breakages, theft or vandalism, electrical damages. Do you have loss of water ?

Does it allow you up to 62 days away without worrying about theft or damage being covered ? This can depend, strangely enough, on neighbours being no more than 50 metres away.

As is quite normal, taking out car insurance with the same agent can mean something around 5% discount. And as previously mentioned, are you covered for health problems arising from breakfast and evening meals (if given).

We have had insurances here for one thing or another for many years. A year or so ago, I called in an assurance company that had taken the time to negotiate with G de France and arrange cover for the exact purpose that people with B&B and Gîtes (with the C de Com or not) actually needed for house and business assurance. We sat down and I showed him my previous policies for what we had here, within minutes, he was showing me items that were not covered and some that were nowhere near sufficient to see us remboursed for certain problems. We never had loss of earnings, although we had a clause that mentioned this and to all and sundry it looked as if we were covered but on further reading, we were not covered as the clause had not been entered in to the formule we had actually chosen.

We went though it all with a fine tooth comb and did the same with the chaps policy in front of me, penny for penny, his was far better and guess what, it was cheaper. One thing I  will emphasise, is that whatever one does, be honest in showing the agent waht you have. He tolfd me that it is false economics to try and "forget" certain rooms, objects etc, as if ever something serious comes up, the expert sent in, would find out as sure as oeufs are eggs. One thing about experts, always get your own in if it is an expensive looking claim, never rely on your own companies assurance expert to be on your side, obvious but..............I must say before we took the new policy out, we sat with two other families with similar businesses and we all came to the conclusion that this policy was extremely clear and concise and since, we have all taken out assurance with the agent.

I do expect most of you all to have a good policy but then so did we, until we were shown the errors and I have to be honest, I trusted the agent, who had insured the house for the people before us and to my eye, all looked quite OK.

The new assurance company by the way is Gan, about the 5th I guess we have been with in our time here, for house or car but this time, I really do believe we are getting what we actually need and what we are paying for!

[Cassis]

[quote user="Miki"]

Does it allow you up to 62 days away without worrying about theft or damage being covered ?

[/quote]

You and your long holidays, Miki! 

The loss of earnings point is well made - it is not in our household policy, would never have expected it to be in a household policy.  I thought these policies were always separate but there again I've never looked into it as we don't entirely depend on the B&B for our income.  And it's not just a B&B issue, of course - the same would go for any self-employed person.

Only one thing puzzled me - what do you mean by loss of water?

[Miki]

Hi Soz,

Loss of water, that is leaks after the meter and therefore your problems as far as paying for water you haven't actually used but simply lost ! It happens !

The 62 days is wishful thinking of course but is what is written in our policy, whereas once with one insurer , it was far less than that. You are right, we all believe that many clauses are add ons but with a good plan, such as the one I spoke of, they are often included. As the agent said at the time, it is about taking the chance out of ones policy and going thtrough it all page by page rather than the more usual   "Have we got this or that that"  reply "Oh yes" and only later at the time of need, find it has a large franchise, or worse no actual cover at all !

[Cassis]

Final question.  Is "franchise" here French for "excess"? [8-)]

[Miki]

Yes, it is the same.

[Alan]

[quote user="Miki"]Hi Soz,

Loss of water, that is leaks after the meter and therefore your problems as far as paying for water you haven't actually used but simply lost ! It happens !

[/quote]

 

This is a good point as it happened to us last year and to be honest never thought that i could have been covered. Did not know i had a problem until we received a letter to say that we had used double the amount of water to previous years

[Cassis]

Water loss is not really a B&B issue - it's something anyone should consider if they're worried about it.  In fact, I had lived my entire life without any such cover and never had a water leak - until we moved here and after 3 months discovered we had inherited one!  Happily, the previous owners footed the bill.

[Miki]

Soz,

Water loss can be quite an issue with B&B's, especially ones that are pretty busy.  With a normal house with say, just two people, one can get a feel to the water one has used and can more easily tell if you are using far more than you can normally account for, thus probably indicating a leak. With a busy B&B, water can vary much more and so, 150 euros more than the year before, may mean little, you may not even get a notice from the water company that your water use was significantly higher than the corresponding period of the year before.

The cost as  I have said before, of having these so called add ons actually within ines contract, makes for anice and tidy contract and quite honestly, when all lumped in together, is not that much more than standard multirisque contract. The important thing and always worth mentioning again, is to make sure you tell the agent exactly what you have and leave them no grounds for an annulation of the assurance, when one really needs a pay out !!

[Cassis]

If the relative difference is too small for someone to know they've got a leak, how do they know to make a claim?  [8-)]

We certainly knew when we had a leak because the first bill we got, 2 months after moving in, indicated that we (and the previous owners) were using a cubic metre a day, which is rather heavy for a small household. Showers, a few flushes of the loo, drinking a couple of litres and cooking didn't account for it, we reckoned.  Happily, we got the bill a couple of months after we moved in and, guessing we might have a leak, I diagnosed the problem by listening to the water pipe using a stick held against it as a stethescope.

So one way to check if you've got a leak is to use a rod as a stethescope against the water pipe where it leaves the meter. But who's going to do that regularly? [:)]

[Miki]

Very simple answer, I guess you don't know if it is just a small loss !

..............but you sure will know if it is a whopping loss and then, merci assurance [:)]

To diagnose a suspected leak like that, there is a way. Fill a pint glass (or litre) from the tap, turn off the stopcock by the meter, leave the tap in the water (in the glass) and any leak should show by a syphoning back of the water in the glass. It was a simple way that Thames Water went round tested homes they suspected of having leaks and did it quite often.....................just AFTER the sell off !!

[Gastines]

Add on to Miki's test. Turn off  stop cock  inside the house in the evening,ensuring you do not have water heater/washing machine etc  on. Read numbers on water meter. in the morning check the numbers.If it's rolled on,you have a problem. Always a good idea to fill the kettle and make sure loo cisterns are full first!!

Regards.

[Mike1958]

[quote user="Cerise"]AGF also added ours on plus the requisite bit for poisoning people with TdH! (this in case Mr Cerise does the cooking[6])   From memory think we pay about extra 50 euros a year.[/quote]

 

Many thanks for all your comments, my local broker is now saying that he is having difficulty in finding/arranging the cover needed and also states that AGF will not provide cover. I am not mad enough to believe he is giving this his full attention and have already started to look for quotes with another broker (MMA).

Can anyone advise as to the general annual policy fee - say for 4 bedrooms that I should expect.

Many thanks,

Mike

www.peak-times.com

 

[Miki]

Mike,

I am not sure what others are paying is the best way to look at it. We all have different places in different regions but having said that, most house insurances are based on Multirisque policies. So I think the best thing, is to get at least 3 or 4 quotes, informing them all what YOU want to be covered and as I said before, be honest (I am sure you will be) so as not to let them have a way out if push comes to shove, so to speak.

Our policy, after a few others over the years, was a nice tidy policy with GAN.

[Will]

Unless AGF has changed over the last year or so then they definitely offer CdH cover. In fact we might still be paying the tiny amount extra. I think it was only about 20€ for the additional public liability (no TdH and for more rooms it will probably be more).

I would agree with what Miki says, ask several insurers, and I would add that the cheapest may not be the best, far better to pay slightly more and have an agent or broker that you feel will give you good service and help you out in case of a claim or any other problem.

It may be difficult to sort this one out if you still have a while to go on your existing policy, and cannot add the extra cover you need, due to the French procedures for cancelling contracts. I am sure your new insurer will be able to advise on, or better still, sort out, the change of policy (ours will, but he is AGF)

[Cerise]

Mike - I'm still with AGF and definitely got cover - though not loss of earnings, but don't think I can get that as I've not got a siret number.

Do you want me to look up the relevant bit and let you know what it comes under in the contract?

 

[Miki]

[quote user="Cerise"]

Mike - I'm still with AGF and definitely got cover - though not loss of earnings, but don't think I can get that as I've not got a siret number.

Do you want me to look up the relevant bit and let you know what it comes under in the contract?

[/quote]

Do keep up Cerise [;-)]

A short while back I stated that GAN in conjunction with G de Fr (I don't think it means you have to be a member though, I am not sure, I just think that the Multirisque policy I have, was designed with those who are registered or not) sent out letters to people in the area with Ch D'Hôtes, stating exactly what their new policy was for.

We decided to take it, not for the price, although in the end it was actually cheaper than our existing and untidy contract but because it has much included that was only available as add ons to the other contract and "at the end of the day" the contract looked more  professional, even though it was of course, designed for B&B' & gîtes..

I have to say, I do not know if this was designed for dept 35 or GAN have it available all over France.

[Cerise]

Sorry Miki - mea culpa and all that.  What with having the flu, guests, snow and Trevor the new dog all in one week I'm not what I wuz if you know what I mean.  Furthermore I am going back to that den of vice known as the UK this weekend.  I've been sharpening me Laguiole but now they won't let me take it and for some bizarre reason I have got to try to pack a peach tree in my suitcase as I forgot to take it in the car at Xmas.  It's alright for you with your possible 62 days sunning yourself somewhere whilst fully insured.  Some of us are still cooking and cleaning up dog piddle you know[:)]

I'll try harder to keep up.  Everyone else please ignore anything i may have posted, I'm confused[8-)]

[Miki]

Have a good time in the vice den [:)]

I have sent you a PM on another entirely different matter ................[;-)]

[Mike1958]

Just a quick follow up from my earlier post.

firstly many thanks to all the threads added, as ever very much appreciated.

I thought that I would enlighten those that are interested into the results of a conversation with a new broker from MMA that I have spoken to (trying hard to do it all in French). By the way this is for an "all risks policy"

Using UK examples of elements of cover i.e.

1. A guest or me spills a glass of red wine onto a carpet that could not be cleaned. Can I claim - answer no

2. A guest knocks over a lamp and breaks it. Can I claim - answer no

3. My mountain bike is stolen away from the house. Can I claim - answer no

4. My garden furniture is stolen (from my garden). Can I claim - answer no

Basically if the house burns down, if there is a flood or storm damage most policies provide decent cover. If something is stolen (from within the house) it is covered but outside of this the extent of cover is poor.

Am I getting this very wrong - or as the broker said "in the UK you insure everything - and therefore pay for it"

Does anyone actually know for sure that there is a French insurance company that does provide "accidental damage" cover and would so for a CDH?

 

Sorry for the long tirade - just paid to have the Land Rover serviced - Feeling extremely poor.

 

Many regards,

Mike

[Miki]

[quote]

I thought that I would enlighten those that are interested into the results of a conversation with a new broker from MMA that I have spoken to (trying hard to do it all in French). By the way this is for an "all risks policy" [/quote]

All house insurance is generally Multirisques (all risks policy but the wording is probably a little vague !!)

Using UK examples of elements of cover i.e. (not to be confused with assurance France though Mike !)

[quote]1. A guest or me spills a glass of red wine onto a carpet that could not be cleaned. Can I claim - answer no  [/quote]

If a guest does it, depending on your want, you can always try and make a claim against them.

[quote]2. A guest knocks over a lamp and breaks it. Can I claim - answer no [/quote]

Again, you can make a claim against the guest if you want to. A point to be made here is, if anything you feel is too valuable and therefore somewhat risky to use in your line of work, then don't make it available. It's OK to say one is upmarket but if that mans having expensive "things" being used by guests, then at your risk be it.....or again, be ready to make a claim against the guest

[quote]3. My mountain bike is stolen away from the house. Can I claim - answer no [/quote]

We have friends who have bikes for use by guests who have to have them securely locke dto gain cover they arranged seprately, it certainly would not pay out if no force of entry was shown and even then, it will only pay out on age of said stolen cycle (s) and the franchise takes away a lot of the remboursement anyway!

[quote]4. My garden furniture is stolen (from my garden). Can I claim - answer no [/quote]

I have it found quite normal here that outside unprotected artices will not be covered.

[quote] Basically if the house burns down, if there is a flood or storm damage most policies provide decent cover. If something is stolen (from within the house) it is covered but outside of this the extent of cover is poor. [/quote]

Not poor so much, well to British eyes maybe but quite natural cover here. Don't forget, just as with top up health cover, there are a few grades and addons that can cover most things in France, the choice as ever, is with the client. The difference perhaps in France, is that all of us are expected to hold Resposibilité vie privée civile assurance as well protection juridique and this is how people can recover losses through accidents by guests as well as in an every day normal life. For instance, my Daughter, when she was just 12, accidentally stood on a girls pair of galsses, the parents sent us a note through the school and our assurance duly paid out.OK that is school assurance but the same principle applies.

As for feeling poor Mike, join all us ex pats who thought the road to Paris was paved in gold [:)]