A Tale of Woe

[Quillan]

When you finally move to France you always meet some fellow Brits at one time or another who know the system. You dont have to do this, you dont have to do that etc etc.

Their pearls of wisdom include things like Dont bother changing the reg on your car, get a CT and French insurance you will be fine, Ive done it for the last X years. Then theres Dont bother telling the French Tax chaps, what they dont know wont hurt them. Then there is the matter of health Get a E111 and travel insurance to cover the rest, know body knows how long you have been here.

Well I want to tell you about a tale that is unfolding as I type. Its a sad tale, I know the people personally and they are very nice polite people, the sort that you would be proud to call your friends.

I had a call from a distraught husband tonight to tell me they hadnt been in touch as his wife has been rushed to hospital, she became pregnant over night and in a week she was not only in great pain but looked as if she was about to come to term and produce very large twins. Apart from this happening in side a week the wife is 50 odd years of age.

After extensive tests in the hospital it appears she has ovarian cancer in a highly progressive state. They have tried to operate but cant remove it as it is so big and is firmly attached. Radio therapy is about to start with the hope it will shrink it to a manageable size and it can be removed. It is now a race against time and the success rate does not look good.

Some time ago we had a conversation about getting our Carte Vital and paying in to the French system. My mate said that a chap he knows over here told him not to bother, go the E111 and travel insurance route, saves you loads of paperwork, grief and more importantly money.

Well the French Hospital has told him that the E111 covers her for the initial emergency treatment and has now run out. Well he had the travel insurance so he contacted them. They in turn contacted her UK GP who informed them that she was successfully treated for breast cancer some 7 years ago. The result of this is that the insurance will not pay. If you ever have heart problems (I know about this personally) or cancer they amend the policy so as not to cover this in future. Not informing them invalidates the insurance. Some companies will give limited cover and a document is available (my mother in-law who is currently undergoing treatment for lung cancer (she was a none smoker by the way) was given one by the McMillan nurse) that tells you who will give you holiday insurance.

So my friend who is very distraught over his wife is also distraught over how he is going to pay for all this as it would seem to have to come from his own pocket. His wife will not be leaving hospital for at least another six to eight weeks and the bills are racking up (by about a thousand Euro a day almost) at an alarming rate. The hospital is getting a bit agitated about how the bills are going to be paid and what with him not speaking much French and being so distraught with it all does not understand whats happening half the time. They have already told him that he may have to sell his house if he has no other way of raising the money. It is good to know however that they have not stopped any treatment, I am sure there must be some ethical code that means they will continue to treat her and sort the money out after.

Now before you read my next comments dont get me wrong, there are lots of Brits here who give excellent advice, I have met one or two myself and have even received excellent advice from one or two members of this forum.

There are one or two Brits out here who get on the ferry as a mini cab driver and get of the other end as experts in all maters legal and the French system. I have learnt that you MUST get in to the system here properly if you intend to live here. You cant rely on E111s and travel insurance and sit there thinking it doesnt matter anyway, it wont happen to me and carry on in ignorance. The systems are good in France, expensive, well yes in comparison, but well worth the money.

So I hope this little story makes those of you who have gone down or are thinking about going down the E111 route and alike to think again and get legal and join the French system.

Should my Friend read this although I am sure he wont have time at present I hope his wife makes a speedy and full recovery and our thoughts are with them both.

PS If you are reading this Peter got any ideas what he can do?


Chris

http://www.chambresdhote.com

[Val_2]

Chris, what a nightmare for your friends. Everyone dreads this sort of problem cropping up and the implications of it,but as you have rightly said, proper health cover in France must be a priority when you arrive - too late after the event. There was an article in FPN a couple of years back when a lady suffered big problems and the hospital took her passport and got her to sign over a cheque for at least 10K to cover costs leaving her to sort out a loan etc to cover it and by taking the passport meant she could not leave the country legally. I don't know what we would have done without our insurance and mutuelle over the years with all the hospital and specialist visits as we do not keep that sort of cash handy. Lets hope this serves as a warning not to buck the system but to conform like the french do and benefit in the long term.

[Will]

LAST EDITED ON 04-Aug-04 AT 10:12 AM (BST)

We've seen it happen too Chris. I think the problem is often that people don't speak enough French, don't do their homework, are totally daunted by the amount of paperwork in a foreign language, so live for several years without paying into the system then, when they need help, find that they have been living illegally and aren't qualified to receive the medical treatment they needed. They are then forced to sell up and return to England, with all the implications of capital gains and high UK house prices.

It's ironic when in England people say how wonderful the French health system is, and some actually go to France for treatment, when so many English living in France can't use it. You can say it's their own fault, but the French - and British - authorities must take some responsibility for allowing them to live here under the mistaken impression that all will be OK.

I'm not saying this applies to your friends Chris, they seem a bit more clued up, but, as I said, we have seen it happen too many times.

Will (50)
Forum moderator

[Iceni]

Thank you for posting this - perhaps it should be reprinted on the front cover of Living France and similar mags.

Is it just a British trait that so often, so many are prepared to take advice from the equivalent of mates in the Public Bar of The Dog & Duck (apologies to any pubs of this name) particularly if it seems to be cheaper and/or fiddles the system ? I am generalising rather than pointing a finger at the unfortunates in your posting.

Thanks to the realists (or is that negativists ?) on this Forum which led to our contacting Peter O. and receiving detailed professional advice, we have followed the official CPAM route though I had to swallow deeply when paying our mutuelle. However there are many cases of "don't bother to do that" in relation to re-registering, for example, on LF so I can understand anyone being confused as to what to do particularly if money is tight.

Enough rambling - hopefully it will all turn out well.

John
http://www.iceni-it.co.uk

[Lauzerte]

What a sad story, I do hope the woman concerned recovers OK.

What is the situation for people who have retired/early retired in the UK and go to live in France? Do you have to pay private insurance to get treatment? What sort of money would be involved for a couple?
Our pension won't be great and we wouldn't be able to afford the council tax here! Anyway have been thinking about retiring to our little house in France.

[Palwing]

What a sorry story...we wish your friend a speedy and successful recovery.

You mention that your friends had an E106...how much cover has that afforded them? Are the fees you mention the ones that would have been covered by a mutuelle? Would a CV on it's own have covered averything?

Lastly, I know this is defeating the object pehaps, but could your friend come back to the UK for treatment to save money? I know the French health system is very good, but with both myself and my daughter having been treated for cancer by the NHS, they have been very good when the "s#*t hits the fan" so to speak.

Please keep us informed of your friends progress, I am sure everyone who reads this topic will be praying for them.

[Jennys]

I know an English couple who were advised by their maire, several years ago, not to bother getting into the system. Despite us and other English people advising them to this day that they are wrong not to do so (they are both retired, therefore they would be covered upto the 70%), they are still living here and rushing back to the UK for treatment. They are both nearly 80 and their health is failing.

Last year the husband had a stroke and was hospitalised for some time. He tried using the E111 and his family had to involve the British Embassy in order to get his costs covered.

One of their reasons for not declaring themselves resident here is that they are worried about the French taxman taking money from them!

Accidents can happen at any time. We are going through it after my husband broke his leg and has been on crutches for 3 months. Luckily I work so we are covered and we have a mutuelle. We didn't have a mutuelle for the first year because we didn't know we needed one.

In my opinion people who believe they don't need to be in the French health system are playing with fire as this post illustrates.

Sorry to go on , but this is something I feel very strongly about.

Bon Courage to your friends, Chris.

Jenny

[Quillan]

Thought I would give you guys an update.

My friends wife has now been operated on as the thing was getting bigger and bigger. She came out of surgery yesterday and has started to recover. Next she goes on to Chemo for about six months and fingers crossed she will survive.

So it would seem very positive at the moment.

Thank you Peter for the email, we will hope that you may be able to help them a little with the other business.

Thank you all for your good wish's which I have taken the liberty to pass on.

Chris

http://www.chambresdhote.com

[Guern]

Can anyone advise us.
We are a couple aged 66 and 73 respectivly, will we be able to
get Health cover in France We bought a house in france last year, But so far we have only lived in it for two weeks We knew we would have to pay for Health cover,but reading your posts we are getting increasingly worried,as my Husband is a diabetic on pills no injections.
I had open Heart Surgery in 1993 and have an artificial aortic
valve for which I take warfarin regularely and also attend a
clinic for blood tests for the rest of my life.
In April of this year I was diagnosed with Cancer of the bladder
and I am being treated for this at the moment.
We do not intend to live in France until the doctors say its
OK to do so, I will need to be monitered for quite a long time
so it will be necessary to be in their Health Scheme before we
live there.
We now live in the Guernsey CI but lived in the UK some years
ago we have national insurance numbers and both recieve a small
UK pension.
As we will be living on our Guernsey pension We are not rich
people, we are now wondering if we made a mistake in buying in
France, as much as we would love to live there, not realising
that Health cover was expensive
We do pay for Medical care in Guernsey .
Would appreciate any information you can give us on cost and what
cover we could get.
Hope the lady who is ill is getting better, not a good time to be worried about costs!

Hope someone can help
Helen