Mistake on E121 form, when to register E106 and E121 forms with CPAM

[maggietarason]

After many years of research I have been just thrilled with how many things have changed in the last year or two! I must have spent a small fortune on 'must have' books now rendered out-of-date.

Having found and begun the purchase process on a small hotel in a touristy part of the Auvergne (we hope to have the first tranche of rooms ready for next Easter or at least the start of the summer season with the rest up to speed for the winter sports season from Xmas on in 2009), my family and I have finally arrived, put our stuff in store and are settling into our rental home until the purchase is complete. My husband and I both have our E106 forms having sold our UK business to finance the move, and my mother, an eighty year old who has lived with us for 25 years and whose carer I now am, has an E121 form. I have a couple of questions which may sound stupid but it is basically in an attempt to ensure that when we present ourselves at the CPAM office there are no unexpected surprises (ok, fat hope, I've been reading the forum for years..)

First, The DWP in its infinite wisdom, and in full possession of all my mother's particulars, pension, NI and NHS number etc, has put her first and middle names in the Surname section of the form and made her surname the first name! All her other paperwork should prove to the CPAM office that this is their mistake and not an attempt for an 80 year old terrorist to pass herself off as someone else bu are they likely to insist that the DWP send another, correct form before registering her?

Next, mum has about £10,000 in her bank account donated by various members of her large extended family, is in receipt of the basic state pension, and as I said before is cared for by me and lives with us, therefore no rent etc. to pay, her money is her own, and she's fortunately past the age for sports cars and toy boys! Is there likely to be a problem about her being our dependent? Should my husband and I submit our E106 forms first and register at the town hall with our own financial details before she gives in her E106 or is there nothing to be gained from this and we should all troop along to the CPAM together? She has existing health problems, therefore we would not want to wait for too long before she is in the system, she worked damn hard all her life and has earned a better level of health care than she has ever received. We are happy to pay privately for doctors, prescriptions etc in the interim but anything major requiring hospitalisation would eat heavily into the funds set aside for the worko needing doing prior to reoprening the hotel.

Finally (or at least for this posting, every day I think of new questions I used to have the answers for before the new president started doing his thing), our rental property is in a different department (Allier) to our hotel (Puy de Dome), should we register at the CPAM closest to us here at the rental house (just in case the sale falls through, touch wood it doesn't) or closest to where our new permanent residence is likely to be. Similarly should we register our presence as hopefully permanent newcomers to the mayor's office near the rental house, the new permanent home, or both?

Hope that doesn't sound too horribly complicated, I know it isn't brief but I can never decide whether to err on the side of too much info or too little.

 

[Boiling a frog]

I suggest that all three of you go to the CPAM where you live (allier) within the next day or two with

 Passports,Birth certificates, Marraige certificates, justificate of address (rental agreement? ) and bank account details(RIB)

Perhaps CPAM will accept your mothers E121, perhaps not, only way to find out is to go to CPAM .

At the moment the rules for registering at the mayor have not been implemented so no need to register  

[sunshine 2]

I don't think your mother will have any problem with the E121 as long as she is not working in your future hotel business and her finances are independant of yours.

I think your E106's will become irrelevant when you register your hotel business as you will immediately start paying cotisations on your business, and health cover will be via that route.

[Sunday Driver]

I suspect that your CPAM will take the view that the E121 is in someone else's name and ask for a replacement.  After all, they'll be relying on the accuracy of that certificate for claiming your insurance costs from the UK.

As a backstop, I'd ring the DWP now and ask them to send out a replacement ASAP.

 

[maggietarason]

Thank you (and the others who replied) for your advice, it has actuall;y got me into a total panic given that I really thought that I had a handle on this thing. I know my husband and I will not need our E106s once we have registered our business (we intended to do this around Easter next year to give us time to finalise the sale, take on an accountant, decide the best form for the business, get registered for tax and all the rest of it. My mother's only 'independent' finances are what she gets for her basic state pension, and as I said the rest of the family chips something in whenever they can or she needs something. As she has lived with us for so long and as I am her carer she will be living with us and supported by us (including any top up insurance needed for hospital care etc although another forum suggested that as she had a permanent heart problem she might qualify for a free top up, looking into this now). Her income therefore will effectively be all her own disposable income as we will be covering all of her other costs. Our current bank account details will show that we have sufficient funds to ensure that she does not become a drain on the state

Given that we have not signed off on the dotted line for our property, are you all telling me that because we want to support my mother in her old age that the recent changes mean she cannot live here with us? I am certain her life expectancy would be very short indeed if she had to return to Britain and go into some form of state care, I nurse her in our home and intend to continue doing so, certainly the separation would kill her off pretty damned quickly and although the other members of my family in blighty will contribute money if it is ever needed they are not able to be her full time carer. Is our only option to shelve our business plans, go back to Britain and rent or buy there and go back to work at whatever fifty pluses can do these days? If so I need to know now before I commit to the purchase of our new business.

Maggie

 

 

 

 

 

[Russethouse]

Are you reading a parallel forum [:)] Or just a long day ? [:)]

No one has suggested any such thing - you have been advised that it seems your mother would qualify for an E121 and to safeguard that entitlement you need to get the form that is in error replaced with a correct one.asap

The French authorities claim a set amount per person from the UK, in respect of E forms - if your mothers identity is not written correctly they may fear that there would be a problem with that process and that they wouldn't get the money. Whats more that could cause stressful delay when you need it least

Don't think 'oh, common sense will tell them the names are just the wrong way round' there is a real chance that wouldn't be the case. Common sense and French bureaucracy do not always go hand in hand

BaF was referring to the form being accepted (not your mothers right to treatment)  - but a correct form is the key .

 If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me PDQ

 

[maggietarason]

Thanks to the Forum Advisor on this subject for her response but I think what threw me was not the legal position over the E121 (which I am already onto the DWP about) but 'sunshine's mention of independent finances for my mother. As I stated she has just her savings (basically contributions from my family towards any unexpected financial problems, about 10,000 GBP) and her basic state pension. Other than that as she will be living with, fed, housed and nursed by yours truly (first using our savins and then our income form the new business) and will therefore be our financial dependent, once our tax registration is in she will be registered as such. I was simply having (afetr admittedly a very long and stressful day) nightmare visions of her being unable to prove sufficient independent financial resources as an individual as stated by sunshine when we go to the CPAM to register her E121.

Sorry.. it has been a long night after a long day after several long weeks and I think I need a stiff drink even though it is only 8.45 !!

Other than that congratulations to the Living France Forum for the fabulous resouce it has been, particularly during the last two years when so much has been changing for the potential newcomer to France.

 

[Sunday Driver]

There is no problem with your mother's situation. She has sufficent personal resources to qualify for legal residency in her own right and whilst she will have to declare her pension and savings interest here, other than some social charges on the interest, she's unlikely to pay any tax.

Her E121 will gain her immediate access to state heathcare insurance - with no requirement to provide proof of independent financial resources - and you can sort out a top-up for her to cover the shortfall in state cover.