maggietarason

Brilliant, and thanks for the rapid response. Does this mean that we have to have french bank account already established for my mother and my husband and I before taking our E121 and E106s in to the CPAM?

Well actually, table d'hotes and gite apartments. We are in the process of buying what used to be a hotel and may be converting it into a combination of five table d'hote rooms plus three self catering apartments all within the same building. We were wondering if this would be possible or would the presence of the self-catering accommodation change the classification of the other rooms. We will be registering the business as an SARL (famille) in all probability as my husband and I will be managing teh rooms and gites while my son (trained as a cook) handles the cooking. Maggie

What is an RIB exactly, I know you get it from your bank but have heard it mentioned several times for situations where I thought that bank statements (from English or French banks) and perhaps certificates of interest paid would need to be produced.   Thanks,   Maggie

Thanks Quillan, I did actually know about the chambre d'hotes/table d/hotes difference but thank you for stating the options so clearly, we are definitely going to be doing an evening meal as well or there is a lot of very expensive cookery training going to go to waste. We would be looking at a restaurant license anyway as we would want to serve wine with the meals in the evening, I think I am right in needing to get that from the Douanes? The self-catering apartments would be just that, self-catering, as this would keep the numbers to cook for more manageable and reduce the number of changeovers to deal with. However, with a view to selling on at a later date we are seriously considering biting the bullet and ensuring that the kitchen is up to the current regulations for a hotel/restaurant kitchen as it would give added flexibility to anyone taking over. Presumably the chamber of commerce can put me onto the appropriate place for all the current regulations with regard to hygiene, equipment etc? (Unless of course I can find a link on the forum for it, shall have to start the search).I shall take your advice and ask the tourism people for the area we will be operating within about the possibility of having apartments as well as table d'hote rooms in the same building, I know that when we were house hunting I did see on our travels, places which offered accommodation with food as well as studio apartments etc either in the same or an annexed building but this may be something which varies with department. We are currently looking for a professional accountant, ideally one with a little English at least but otherwise I have a translator contact who will be happy to accompany me and fill in any gaps I can't manage myself (french not bad but speed and some regional accents can throw me), and I will ask for and complete a tax form straight away, happy to get into the system really, I know there will be a certain amount of crossover because of the different tax years. If anyone out there can recommend an accountant who is either based in the Auvergne or is happy to do business by phone/e-mail/fax etc. I would be delighted to hear from them as I do prefer to go on personal recommendation (as with our English accountant who was brilliant and recommended by a friend). So, tax office, Tourist Office, Chamber of Commerce, accountant - got it. Many thanks again, After a brief 'rest' of a few months after selling our business I find myself strangely excited to be getting back into the whole bureaucratic swing of it, clearly I'm not a person who can cope with time off! How sad is that, Maggie  

Hooray, after wondering whether I would ever hear anything more about my proposed purchase with my husband of a little ex-hotel in the Puy de Dome, I have received the papers today to sign for the compromis de vente and have been told that we should expect to complete around the end of the month. Much relief, as we have already moved out here into rental accommodation in order to make a start on work as soon as we have the keys in our sticky paws, and are going to register our E121 and E106s (the E121 for my mother who lives with us) at the local CPAM this week. Previous experience has taught us that despite all the proper surveys, investigations etc, we will not know the full extent of the amount of work we need to do, and the cost, until after we are the owners and have started to poke around in the bits that surveyors never reach, so we are currently keeping two main plans on the back burner, to either go on with the previous owners plan to turn the place into a number of apartments, rent them out and then sell on in about 5 years or so (ultimately we want somewhere with a bit of land as well) or alternatively to return to either running it as a hotel or, as suggested in a book I was reading, a combination of 5 table d'hote rooms or suites plus two or three gite style apartments. I have already bookmarked from your forum the link to the forms for registering as a chambre d'hotes with the town hall, but wondered what the situation was when considering a business (probably SARL Famille) which combined both catered and self-catering accommodation within the same building. In addition, my husband and I will be officially 'inactifs' using our E106 forms until we register the business, and will have had no income after selling our UK business (other than a little interest on our almost as little savings) since August this year (we arrived in France in November). Our English accountants will be handling our April 2008-2009 tax affairs on the Uk front, but should we be registering for french tax immediately given that - now we know we probably have no more need to worry about our purchase and that it will go through smoothly (touch wood) we are most definitely resident though unlikely to register the business until at least the spring of next year. So, two questions really - how to register a mixed bag of accommodation types under the same roof (is there a special form?) And should we register for tax immediately or at the beginning of the 2009 tax year in January which will hopefully be the first year in which we actually generate an income stream. There is an additional 'complication', our previous business gave us access to some top notch professional craftspeople who might be interested in running craft based holidays with us in the shoulder seasons, along with access to a customer base for the business of about 4000 keen largely amateur craftspeople who might be interested in such holidays. Would this have to be registered as a separate business yet again or could it be incorporated with the chambre d'hotes/gites business. Sorry if this all sounds very basic, I have done my research, honest, and found so many contradictory pieces of 'fact' that I am tearing my hair out! Should have come to you lot in the first place, I'm sure there will be more questions later, one thing your forum is teaching me really fast is that all the research and reading I have done to date is probably erroneous, or irrelevant, or both, and that there is no substitute for other people's hard earned experience in the real world. I would also really appreciate (if such a thing exists) a definitive list of the order in which things should be done in order to be legal and paying all relevant dues on time and to the right people. Many thanks for your time, Maggie

Thanks to the Forum Advisor on this subject for her response but I think what threw me was not the legal position over the E121 (which I am already onto the DWP about) but 'sunshine's mention of independent finances for my mother. As I stated she has just her savings (basically contributions from my family towards any unexpected financial problems, about 10,000 GBP) and her basic state pension. Other than that as she will be living with, fed, housed and nursed by yours truly (first using our savins and then our income form the new business) and will therefore be our financial dependent, once our tax registration is in she will be registered as such. I was simply having (afetr admittedly a very long and stressful day) nightmare visions of her being unable to prove sufficient independent financial resources as an individual as stated by sunshine when we go to the CPAM to register her E121. Sorry.. it has been a long night after a long day after several long weeks and I think I need a stiff drink even though it is only 8.45 !! Other than that congratulations to the Living France Forum for the fabulous resouce it has been, particularly during the last two years when so much has been changing for the potential newcomer to France.  

Thank you (and the others who replied) for your advice, it has actuall;y got me into a total panic given that I really thought that I had a handle on this thing. I know my husband and I will not need our E106s once we have registered our business (we intended to do this around Easter next year to give us time to finalise the sale, take on an accountant, decide the best form for the business, get registered for tax and all the rest of it. My mother's only 'independent' finances are what she gets for her basic state pension, and as I said the rest of the family chips something in whenever they can or she needs something. As she has lived with us for so long and as I am her carer she will be living with us and supported by us (including any top up insurance needed for hospital care etc although another forum suggested that as she had a permanent heart problem she might qualify for a free top up, looking into this now). Her income therefore will effectively be all her own disposable income as we will be covering all of her other costs. Our current bank account details will show that we have sufficient funds to ensure that she does not become a drain on the state Given that we have not signed off on the dotted line for our property, are you all telling me that because we want to support my mother in her old age that the recent changes mean she cannot live here with us? I am certain her life expectancy would be very short indeed if she had to return to Britain and go into some form of state care, I nurse her in our home and intend to continue doing so, certainly the separation would kill her off pretty damned quickly and although the other members of my family in blighty will contribute money if it is ever needed they are not able to be her full time carer. Is our only option to shelve our business plans, go back to Britain and rent or buy there and go back to work at whatever fifty pluses can do these days? If so I need to know now before I commit to the purchase of our new business. Maggie          

After many years of research I have been just thrilled with how many things have changed in the last year or two! I must have spent a small fortune on 'must have' books now rendered out-of-date. Having found and begun the purchase process on a small hotel in a touristy part of the Auvergne (we hope to have the first tranche of rooms ready for next Easter or at least the start of the summer season with the rest up to speed for the winter sports season from Xmas on in 2009), my family and I have finally arrived, put our stuff in store and are settling into our rental home until the purchase is complete. My husband and I both have our E106 forms having sold our UK business to finance the move, and my mother, an eighty year old who has lived with us for 25 years and whose carer I now am, has an E121 form. I have a couple of questions which may sound stupid but it is basically in an attempt to ensure that when we present ourselves at the CPAM office there are no unexpected surprises (ok, fat hope, I've been reading the forum for years..) First, The DWP in its infinite wisdom, and in full possession of all my mother's particulars, pension, NI and NHS number etc, has put her first and middle names in the Surname section of the form and made her surname the first name! All her other paperwork should prove to the CPAM office that this is their mistake and not an attempt for an 80 year old terrorist to pass herself off as someone else bu are they likely to insist that the DWP send another, correct form before registering her? Next, mum has about £10,000 in her bank account donated by various members of her large extended family, is in receipt of the basic state pension, and as I said before is cared for by me and lives with us, therefore no rent etc. to pay, her money is her own, and she's fortunately past the age for sports cars and toy boys! Is there likely to be a problem about her being our dependent? Should my husband and I submit our E106 forms first and register at the town hall with our own financial details before she gives in her E106 or is there nothing to be gained from this and we should all troop along to the CPAM together? She has existing health problems, therefore we would not want to wait for too long before she is in the system, she worked damn hard all her life and has earned a better level of health care than she has ever received. We are happy to pay privately for doctors, prescriptions etc in the interim but anything major requiring hospitalisation would eat heavily into the funds set aside for the worko needing doing prior to reoprening the hotel. Finally (or at least for this posting, every day I think of new questions I used to have the answers for before the new president started doing his thing), our rental property is in a different department (Allier) to our hotel (Puy de Dome), should we register at the CPAM closest to us here at the rental house (just in case the sale falls through, touch wood it doesn't) or closest to where our new permanent residence is likely to be. Similarly should we register our presence as hopefully permanent newcomers to the mayor's office near the rental house, the new permanent home, or both? Hope that doesn't sound too horribly complicated, I know it isn't brief but I can never decide whether to err on the side of too much info or too little.