sky dish

[ngh1]

hi

can anyone tell me, is it posible( if so how to install it) to take an english sky dish and decoder to france and install it, so it can get the english free to air channels?

[alnmike]

Yes you can. You need to buy your Sky box and card (as you cannot connect to a uk phone line you cannot have any of the deals). I think you are not supposed to to have Sky outside the UK, copyright or something. http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/ has great instructions which we followed and worked for us. i would suggest buying a signal meter to line up the dish. We receive all the BBC, ITV and other Free to View channels.

[le bouffon]

It is illeagal to have a sky contract in France,you can buy a french dish and box for less than E70(brico dept had them on sale as a kit,dish box and cable for E34.99 last year)which went alined with the astra 2 satalite will pick up bbc tv and radio and some other channels for free and will out the need for a sky contract.

[Deimos]

Another helpful site is http://www.brymar.co.uk/info/info.htm.

Took me a couple of hours to install, align and set-up, including bolting dish to wall, running cable through, etc. Only equipment used for aligning was an old walking compass and the signal strength indication on the Sky box (no signal level meter) – it was quick and very easy to do. I’m sure you can do it with a signal strength meter but I had no problems without one (and thus saved money).

Sky are not allowed to have subscribers outside UK – if they find out you are abroad they will terminate your subscription (something they do through the satellite and can do without telephone line). Be careful. When telephoning them they can look at the calling number (called ID), when e-mailing they can get the IP address e-mailed from (including for web mail). Posting letters with a French stamp, etc. No idea how carefully they check these things but I guess it’s a risk.

Ian

[sid]

I don't think it's actually "illegal", no-one is going to take you to court I don't think. SKY are bound by their contractual arrangements to only allow subscribers in the UK. They don't actually make it very difficult for us to take our boxes and cards to France, and if you want to take out a subscription and you can supply them with a UK address they'll quite happily provide the service.

 

[le bouffon]

Tell them you live in France and see if you still recieve SKY then.

[Eslier]

Bouffon, in your rush to post something that is more what we might expect to read on AI, you forgot to read the original post. If you had, you would have read that  ngh1 wants to receive FTA channels and didn't mention anything about a subscription.  There is most certainly nothing illegal about bringing a Sky Digibox to France and using to receive satellite transmissions any more than it is to receive the same signals via a box you buy in a brico store over here.

Yes, if you have digibox - bring it with you, it will work fine.

Yes, if you have a dish - bring that with you too. A 45cm minidish will work fine in most of France but you might need a bigger one if you are heading for the south.  

[Brilec]

I would agree with everything Eslier has said.

The astra 2D reception guide suggests that you really need an 80cm dish for most of France, though many manage well with smaller.

It is NOT illegal to receive any english channels in France. As stated, the UK television companies only have the rights to show their programmes to UK audiences. It is therefore up to them to ensure, as best they can, that those outside the UK cannot receive their output.

This is why, when BBC, and then ITV went free to air, they switched to the Astra 2D satellite which has a much smaller footprint.

Your existing Sky box will work just as well in France. If you have a card with it, bring that too, and you will also be able to get Channels 4 & 5.

Brian.

[le bouffon]

Eslier,I was reponding to the second post ie about the "sky" box etc.It is illegal to have a SKY contract in France,once again if you doubt that ask SKY themselves,next time you think you know what post I am answering,think before you post,please.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Brilec"]

It is NOT illegal to receive any english channels in France. As stated, the UK television companies only have the rights to show their programmes to UK audiences. It is therefore up to them to ensure, as best they can, that those outside the UK cannot receive their output.

[/quote]

Wrong actually. If you look back through this section I started a thread last year where I contacted the BBC, ITV and Sky about this because of all the dis-information being spread around. Sky never really answered the question fully about legality but contractual wise you can't use their subscription box's outside the UK to recieve Sky broadcast (Like none BBC and ITV etc).

The BBC did come back and they said it was illegal under the Telecommunications Act but their problem was inforcing it on those that live abroad. If you report somebody to the BBC who is receiving their programs abroad they will contact the appropreate agency in that country and ask them to do something, the truth is the agency is not interested and nobody has ever contacted the BBC on this issue. Basically they admitted that whilst illegal there was nothing they could do. ITV delcined to answer but I suspect as they are in the UK then same rules apply to them as well.

I saw somewhere that channel 4 and 5 go FTV next year, is this correct?

We live down south and a 60cm disk works fine and we are in the mountains with a tree in front.

[Brilec]

There is no criminal law covering the use of a Sky contract in France, thus it is not illegal.

There might be a civil case to answer, but I doubt it. There is however a requirement, a civil contract, which Sky (and other UK broadcasters) must adhere to as far as they can, which comes from their rights to show films and programmes to particular geographical areas.

True, if you ask Sky if you can have a contract with them when you live in france, they will say no (for the above reason). This does not make it illegal though.

The Telecommunications Act is a part of UK law, and is highly unlikely to be enforcable in France. As far as the consumer is concerned, it refers to what broadcasting material you are licenced to see or hear, and what you are required to do with anything you might see or hear unintentionally.

Anyway all this is rather academic, as the original poster was not asking about Sky contracts, but Free to Air reception, which is most certainly NOT illegal.

[Will]

[quote user="Brilec"]

...but Free to Air reception, which is most certainly NOT illegal.

[/quote]

Though if you happen to mention to the BBC that you are receiving their TV service in France they will go very tight-lipped and say that it is outside the terms of their broadcasting licence for you to be receiving anything other than BBC World outside the UK and Ireland.

As you say, it is all academic and has been discussed to death before anyway.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Brilec"]

Anyway all this is rather academic, as the original poster was not asking about Sky contracts, but Free to Air reception, which is most certainly NOT illegal.

[/quote]

Why don't YOU go and ask the BBC then as you can't be bothered to find the post and don't believe me, here is the link http://www.bbcinternationalunit.com/contacts.shtml that’s who I asked and they said yes it's illegal unless it is rebroadcast via that (in our case France) countries TV broadcaster. So as it is originally broadcast from the UK via a satellite which it just so happens we can receive in France be it on a box bought from a DIY shop or a Sky box FTV it is illegal to do so. The only answer as I say again from Sky that it was a contractual law issue. One of the reasons for changing satellites was to reduce the footprint so stop people in Spain receiving the programs illegally.

I am not sugesting that people stop watching English TV in France, we are all adults here and we can do what we want but it is only fair to make people aware of what the legal situation is. The truth is that nobody has ever been fined, taken to court, put in prision for doing it and probably never will. And yes I watch UK TV but then I know what I am doing is illegal, does it stop me sleeping at night, no of course not.

I know full well you will answer this in about 2 minutes and tell me I am wrong and you will make no effort what so ever to check with anyone and you will be totally unable to prove from any definitive source especially the BBC that I am. It's total hearsay and the only people who probagate this falicy are those that have a financial interest.

[Deimos]

[quote user="Will the Conqueror"]

Though if you happen to mention to the BBC that you are receiving their TV service in France they will go very tight-lipped and say that it is outside the terms of their broadcasting licence for you to be receiving anything other than BBC World outside the UK and Ireland.

[/quote]

That is interesting as a couple of years ago I corresponded with the BBC about poor World service reception and part of their response (about Radio 4) was “The long-wave frequency mentioned in our frequency information for Europe is a frequency used by the UK channel, BBC Radio 4, to reach parts of Britain not served by their FM frequencies, including coastal waters. It is not intended for delivery outside the UK, but can often be heard quite far into France when atmospheric conditions permit, particularly during the summer months. “.

Ian

[Robbie34]

Brilec is absolutely right:  it has nothing whatsoever to do with it being illegal to view BBC programmes outside of the UK.  The whole issue is due to copyright restrictions on some of the material that is broadcast by the BBC and other bodies.  It is not illegal to view such programmes outside of the United Kingdom.

The principle factor is the territorial broadcast rights of films, which are restricted to the UK, in the case of the BBC and commercial operators.  Home grown productions usually have no such restriction.

[Will]

And the licensing of radio programmes, which are often broadcast on frequencies whch allow very long range reception, is a totally different matter from TV. As correctly pointed out, it is a copyright matter rather than a criminal one - though without wishing to muddy matters further, it is interesting to speculate how this might apply to France's Napoleonic law, where there is not the same distinction between civil and criminal matters.

To return to the point of this topic, the matter is covered in the FAQ section of this forum. Though we appreciate that things change and some of the detail might be slightly out of date, nevertheless the basics are there.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Robbie34"]

Brilec is absolutely right:  it has nothing whatsoever to do with it being illegal to view BBC programmes outside of the UK.  The whole issue is due to copyright restrictions on some of the material that is broadcast by the BBC and other bodies.  It is not illegal to view such programmes outside of the United Kingdom.

The principle factor is the territorial broadcast rights of films, which are restricted to the UK, in the case of the BBC and commercial operators.  Home grown productions usually have no such restriction.

[/quote]

Can you therefore ponit me to where I can find this information on either the BBC or any government body website because untill you can I stand by what I have said because I actually asked the BBC, posted a copy of my question on this forum and posted the reply when I eventually got it.

[Tony F Dordogne]

I'm sure that I saw a message a few days ago on here from a company called 'Sky in France' or something similar.

I had a look at their web site and they say that they can do all of this for people, set up, install the whole thing - in fact they were advertising for installers.

So if what is said here is correct and that though not illegal, it is outside of the Sky users contract, where does it leave that company?

[Quillan]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

I'm sure that I saw a message a few days ago on here from a company called 'Sky in France' or something similar.

I had a look at their web site and they say that they can do all of this for people, set up, install the whole thing - in fact they were advertising for installers.

So if what is said here is correct and that though not illegal, it is outside of the Sky users contract, where does it leave that company?

[/quote]

Ah yes well..... Actually there are loads of them that advertise even in the LF magazine. There was one that advertises and tells you that when you get your Sky box complete with Sky sports etc you contact them and under no circumstances must you call Sky direct as this will invalidate your Sky card and you don't get your money back. It therefore appears to me that they are registerng the card to somebody else in the UK, you pay them and they pay Sky. So if it was all above board why do you have to do this? I shall look for their URL and post it here if I find it again.

http://skycards.net/catalog/ To get a FTV card you must have a UK address which they will get for you, click on Freesta Carc + UK Address option on right side of screen.

http://www.freesatfromsky.com/ which is the SSSL company for Sky and offers box's and cards If you look at their terms and conditions all the cards belong to them and cannot be taken outside the United Kingdom. They must also be linked to an address in the UK.

http://www.skyfrance.tv/ Charge you £100 for a card valued at £30 by Skycards, why is this when it's all legal?

http://www.skyforeurope.com/ Their terms state "4. If you have a sky system with us, then customers are reminded
never to ring sky from outside the UK, sky will usually take your details and then instantanoeusly cut off their subscription card."

http://www.digicams-uk.com/prod387.htm 1/ you pay us £199.00 each year; we will manage your Sky ROI account and ensure that all is well all of the time. We will make any changes to your Sky ROI account when ever you ask us to. You must never contact sky directly or your card may be killed.

There are loads of them out there just do a search in google. Of course they want you think everthing is OK and above board because they are making loads of money from selling the box and card (a new box and card with installation for FTV from Sky is only £150 so why do you have to pay a minimum of £299 plus cost of card and instalation in France)? Those that say it is OK are either badly informed or have a financial interest. What they should be saying is "yes we can get a card and box for you, yes we can install it but it's not legal IF you ever get caught and your card will be turned off". Why don't Sky chase up the card once it's switched off even though it belongs to them and you have stolen it, welll the cards wroth pennies and it's just not worth the grief. One day they will go after somebody I am sure just to bring these iffy companies in line when they get to greedy as I am sure they know exactly whats going on and it's money in their pocket to.

[Eslier]

The main area of controversy hereis the use of this word "illegal". Unfortunately, it has become over used by anglophones and the meaning is not always fully understood. In essence, however, as has already been pointed out, for something to be illegal there must be a law on the statute books , or within common law, specifically making it so.

First let us deal with the Sky issue. When Sky issue a viewing card as part of a monthly contract or as a "freesatfromsky" card, it issued subject to acceptance of their terms and conditions. These t&cs include clauses that states the card can only be used by the person to whom it was issued and  more importantly, only at the address to which it was issued. So, even if you move house in the UK you should advise them of a change of address or you will have infringed their t&cs. If you bring a viewing card to France then you are clearly in breach of the t&cs to which you agreed when you  accepted the card. In theory, Sky could  take you to a civil court and seek damages from you for being in breach of contract but in practice they don't really care too much and there seems to be no record of them ever having done so. If, however, it comes to their attention that a card is being used abroad then they are quite likely to remotely disable the card. If asked, Sky have no option but to inform you that you cannot receive their broadcasts outside the UK as this would be outside the terms of their broadcast license.

Regarding the copyright issues, the legal aspects appear to be untested so the significance to the viewer is unclear. As others have said, broadcasters such as the BBC and ITV only hold the broadcast rights to broadcast in the UK for many of the programs  they send to air. As such, it is their duty to do all that is possible to ensure that this copyright is not breached. If, therefore, you ask them they will tell you that their television broadcasts are intended for the UK only and should not be viewed outside this region. To this end, both the BBC and ITV used to use the Sky encryption to try and enforce boundaries. That both have now abandoned encryption is a sign that many owners of the original material are becoming more relaxed about wider range audiences and are happy to still allow the UK broadcasters to have broadcast rights without such stringent barriers in place.

Whether or not it is acceptable to view programs outside the area they are intended for is probably the greyest area of all, is untested and probably unlikely ever to be tested. A scenario to explain the issue is this. Bernie Eccleston, for example, owns the rights to Formula One motor racing. He makes a huge amount of money selling the broadcast rights to different companies in each country. So, the french broadcaster who has paid a lot of money for these rights might get understandably cross if it discovers that thousands of people in France are watching it on UK satellite ITV. The question is, can the viewer be held liable for breach of contract or is the responsibility with ITV ? No one really knows the answer to this for sure but it could open such a huge can of worms and the numbers of viewers are not that significant to make it worth anyones while challenging it.

Radio broadcasts are now available on the world wide web so international copyright appears no longer to be an issue. Surely it won't be long before tv broadcasts follow suit, and then you can expect to see the bottom drop out of the satellite market !

Regarding the company advertising Sky in France, if you look at their website, they make it clear that Sky contracts and viewing cards must be registered to a UK address. They are not doing anything wrong as long as they make that clear. It is the owner of the card that makes the choice, or not, to bring the card to France.

[Quillan]

No you have not read their CONTRACT and terms and conditions properly. The card is issued for the United Kingdom only (Sky Ireland and Channel Islands have different contracts). The card be it FTV or a normal Sky card belongs to Sky so if you take it out of the UK you are beaking your CONTRACT, which is a legally binding document in law. If they cancel the card and you don't send it back you have in EU common law stolen it so technically you can be arrested, sent back to the UK and tried there. I could never see this happening in a month on sunday mind but thats what it comes down to technically. I rather suspect as many others do that as long as Sky get their money and are unaware of any address change they are happy (probably more with getting the money thatn anything else)

[le bouffon]

Once again IT is illegal to have a SKY contract when viewing via SKY in France.

[Robbie34]

[quote user="le bouffon"]Once again IT is illegal to have a SKY contract when viewing via SKY in France.[/quote]

No, it is not.  Have you not understood the previous posts, or don't you know the meaning of "illegal"?

[le bouffon]

If it is against the law, civil or crimminal it is against the law,bet you install tv`s.ps ask Sky if you can view tv using any of their packages here in France and see what they say,this are been done to death and you my friend are WRONG.

[Robbie34]

I can see you live up to your user name.

Can you name chapter and verse of the civil or criminal law which states that it is illegal to view BBC or Sky programmes in France, or anywhere outside of the UK for that matter?

Just because the use of a Sky card outside of the UK infringes Sky's terms and conditions does not render it illegal.  Indeed, under EU legislation there is an "open skies" policy relating to satellite television, and efforts have been made in the past to ensure this.  Below is a portion of the proposed directive.

Television without frontiers

The EU's landmark piece of audiovisual legislation is the 'Television Without Frontiers' directive which sets the conditions for the transmission of television broadcasts within the European single market. The directive dates from 1989 and was updated in 1997. It is under review and may be further amended, to take account, inter alia, of the impact of digital broadcasting and the wider choice of channels it offers. The scope of any proposed changes will be known by the end of 2005. 

The directive requires member states to coordinate their national legislation in order to ensure that:

• there are no obstacles to the free movement of television programmes within the single market;