BBC Radio via satellite - possible changes

[Martin963]

This may be a bit too early to be saying this,  but it seems likely that most BBC radio stations on satellite will be changing frequency in the not too distant future (whilst remaining on the Astra 2 slot).

Those with Sky digiboxes will not notice any difference,   but if you have a non Sky box it's likely that you will have to do a rescan if and when the move takes place.

I mention this simply to reassure folk that - if one morning they find that the BBC radio stations no longer work - they will still be able to receive them anew by retuning.

I haven't checked it out yet but the new frequency which is already testing is apparently 11954 MHz (11.954 GHz),  horizontal polarisation,  FEC 2/3,   SR 27500.

But it's probably not worth doing anything other than noting the information until we have a firm date for the change,  if indeed it comes.

[Nick Trollope]

There is also the rumour that the BBC are to disallow access to internet listeners not using UK ISP's - we have seen this already with things like Eurovision, blaming licence fee (payable only by UK listeners) constraints.

I do hope they don't chop R4 .....

 

[Martin963]

in the case of BBC radio via satellite there really is no need to worry;  in fact the service area over Europe will increase again, back to how it was prior to 2003 and the move from Astra 2A to Astra 2D.

So the fine folk of Malta etc will be pleased no doubt.

It seems likely (in my view) that Radio 5 (or whatever the BBC seem to want to call it at the moment) will stay on 2D,  as of course will most of the television - for copyright reasons.

[Suandpete]

    It's happened to us!   Since this morning we haven't been able to receive any of the BBC radio channels - we've tried the frequency suggested by Martin but that doesn't seem to work - anybody got any other ideas? We have a Grundig Sky Digibox with one of trhose dark blue cards with a yellow house on it - the free to view one that was issued a couple of years ago.    In the gite we have a free to air box and that is absolutely fine - still receiving all the radio channels.

[Anton Redman]

1. Try actually unplugging the box counting to 30 then plugging it back in.

2. Swop the boxes between the gite and your house and see which receives what after they have had a couple of hours to pick up the channels details.

The changes Martin describes should only impact people who have a non sky digital reciever but with the dish aimed at the Sky cluster at a notional 27 degrees east.  A skybox should automatically pickup the changes.

[Suandpete]

    Interesting - turning it off for 30 seconds didn't make any difference - but swapping them over showed that it is the Grundig Sky digibox that is the problem - ie the free to air box receives radio in both places but the free to view Grundig box receives it in neither.  I will trey leaving the Grundig box off for a few hours then leave it switched on overnight and see if it will then pick up the changes by the morning.  Thanks for your help - I'll keep you posted.

[Suandpete]

    We tried leaving the box unplugged for a few hours and then leaving it switched on all night - but we still have none of the BBC radio channels - not even the World Service, however everything else appears to be fine.   Any ideas anyone?

[Martin963]

...when you say you tried the frequency I suggested,  what happened?   Presumably you went to services -> system set up -> add channels ->    and then filled in the details as per my parameters.     When you pressed "find channels" did anything happen?   Did any message appear?

At first glance it's possible that your Grundig is not producing the 22 kHz tone that's required to switch the LNB up to hi-band (11.954 is hi-band).   This would not have mattered with the old frequency.   But without more info that's just a guess at the moment,  and assumes that the BBC have already "instructed" (via the Sky EPG) your digibox to look at the new frequencies.   I can't tell if that's happened yet but my guess it's unlikely as the BBC have only had the new freq running since 2nd May.   But possible.

Odd - particularly if you can still get ch 4 which is another hi-band transponder.

[Suandpete]

    Yes that is what I did - and the message is "no signal found".  We can still get Channel 4.   Is there any way that I can find if the box is producing the 22 Khz tone?  We have had it for 5 years now - does this mean that it may be "old" technology and things have moved on?

[Martin963]

No not old age,   my box is eight years old and still going strong.   I think we can discard the 22 kHz theory now because if you can still get ch 4 then the 22 kHz signal is reaching the LNB and doing its switching.

I've been checking what else is on the same beam (2A south) and the list includes ch 5 (or FIVE or whatever they're calling it this week).   I assume you can still get that,  if so then it's a very odd puzzle you've presented us!

What happens if you do an Add Channels on this:

12441  Vertical  27500 2/3

That should at least get you back Radios 2 & 4 while I scratch my head about the others.  

Could other peeps scratch their heads too as this is a very odd one it seems.

[Suandpete]

    That's fantastic!   Now we've got 2 and 4 back - thanks very much.   We actually noticed months ago - probably the end of last summer - that we no longer had Channel 5 - I've just checked and we don't have it. 

[Martin963]

well now we're getting somewhere (although I'm not entirely sure where).

It's possible that your dish was (rightly) for its time optimised on Astra 2D.   Apart from the general orientation this satellite has a peculiarity of not quite transmitting its signals absolutely vertically and horizontally,  which means an extra small twist to the LNB (clockwise if you're standing in front of the dish).   Generally it's a compromise to get all the Astra 2 cluster working on one set up and generally it's fairly easy.  But maybe yours is slightly too twisted...?

It could also be that your dish caught a gust of wind which has just pushed it far enough away from the compromise mentioned above (because the satellites are also not quite co-located,  they're all about 100 kms away from each other) to handicap reception of 2A horizontal.   Your FTA box may be just that bit more sensitive and therefore finding the signal which your Sky box doesn't see..

My worry is that your present reception of Radio 2 & 4 will disappear soon when the BBC rationalisation is complete.

It could also be that your Grundig just has a temporary bug in the EPG that's hiding 11954 MHz.   Sky have the ability to render invisible certain transponders and fluxes if they so wish and if that's the case other people with your model will be complaining and a software correction will be downloaded soon.

I really don't know which of the above it is (but would guess at the dish having been blown a tiny bit from true),  but please post again if and when you lose Radios 2 & 4.

The real proof would be take the Grundig round to another Astra 2 dish at a friend and see if the radios magically re-appear;  then I would say it's a case of fine tuning the position of your dish.

[Suandpete]

    I did try taking it up to the gite yesterday (which has a separate dish)- it didn't pick up the radio stations there either.  The free to air box from the gite picks them up from our dish here at this house - but as you say it may be more sensitive. I just had a look at the signal strength - its' 100% and signal quality is maybe a tiny bit short of 70%.

Thanks very much for your help - sad as it is, I really do appreciate having radio 2 back in the kitchen (we have a wireless transmitter from the digibox to a speaker in the kitchen).

[Martin963]

...  sorry yes I'd forgotten that bit.   In which case I'd let the Grundid stew for a few days (whilst enjoying Radio 2 via other channels) as these things (FTA things) often seem to sort themselves out and I think you've eliminated the obvious problems.  'tis odd though....

[Anton Redman]

As you have already checked the signal strength why not try a forced download ?:  Switch off the receiver at the mains wall socket or unplug it from the mains . Press and hold the front panel "backup" button and switch the mains power back on. Continue to hold the button for 30 seconds or until the LEDs all light (depends on the make/model). As soon as this happens, you'll see a message on the screen (only if you have connected via the TV Scart). Leave the receiver for at least 15 minutes to download the software via satellite.

After a forced download you should then switch the receiver off at the wall socket for ten seconds or unplug again. Remove the card. Switch back on. Wait till it asks for the card then insert it.

In order to make switching off the power / unplugging easier I put an on off switch on the power lead to our digibox

[Suandpete]

    Thanks for the suggestion - we just tried it but unfortunately it hasn't made any difference at all - still no BBC radio (apart from 2 and 4 which we now have as added channels) and no channel 5 (although I'm not bothered about that at all as we never used to watch it anyway).  Is there anybody else reading this thread in the same situation?

[Martin963]

What happens if you do a find channels (add channels as before) on

12032 H 27500 2/3   ?

You don't need to save them,  I'm just wondering what message the Grundig produces on that frequency?

[Martin963]

You might like to have a look at

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=574267

as it seems you're not the only one that's having trouble. 

But I'd still be interested to see what if anything you get on 12032 MHz,   given that your problems with hi-band horizontal probs started (at least it seems that way) last year...

But don't touch that dish!

[Suandpete]

    Tried it - no signal found!

[Martin963]

...which is a bit worrying,  simply because it suggests that the combination of high band (ie 22 kHz present) and Horizontal polarisation (which I think is the higher LNB voltage although I can't remember for certain) is too much for the Grundig;   my hunch now (and I know I keep behaving like a girouette) is that maybe the power supply is gradually failing.

One of the posters to digital spy - like you - has lost channel five (shows that people don't watch it regularly,  sorry cooperbola!) and it is true that Grundig produced a batch of boxes that had short lived PSU's.   You'd think that if channel 5 had gone as a result of an error by Sky there'd be a lot more fuss than there is.....

Suggest you hang on a bit and see what transpires from the debate on DS;   then a decision based on other people's experience can be made.

[marina]

We have a Grundig sky box which is working perfectly on all channels.

[Martin963]

...well you probably got one that wasn't part of the faulty run.....!

But confirms that it isn't ALL Grundig boxes.

[Martin963]

I don't know suandpete whether you've been following the correspondence here

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=14581002&posted=1#post14581002

but we're still no nearer being certain of the causes of your loss of BBC radio on the Grundig.   Have there been any developments? (I rather doubt it).

Personally I think the power supply on your box is probably failing but I will keep trying to find out for certain.

[Martin963]

I think it really is fairly safe to say now that suandpete have got a failing Grundig.

If you ONLY need BBC radio then you could try turning the LNB on the dish through 90 degrees,  then do an add channels on 11954 2/3 27500 but with VERTICAL polarisation.   I don't know if it would work and it would mean the EPG and everything else stopped working,  so maybe it's just too perverse.

Otherwise I think you're going to need a new box (*) and maybe a phone call to Sky (not from France) to pair your card and new box,  if necessary (which it probably won't be).

(*)  - or a repair,  you can get a kit that with a bit of soldering rectifies the most common fault,  see the digital spy thread I quoted.

[Suandpete]

    Thanks very much for your help - I guess nothing lasts forever - particularly when it has dodgy components!  It's still okay at the moment so I have bookmarked the relevant site aboiut repairing the digibox and when push comes to shove we'll have a go.