Wifi CCTV

[brodie19]

Pardon my ignorance regarding wifi CCTV, but I would like someone to confirm that I have this correct!

I plan to use a CCTV camera to monitor a stable immediately next to the house and use a laptop to view. I would prefer also to be able to monitor via the internet at times, away from home.

I have up to 2.5mB ADSL via my Orange LIVEBOX.

Is it simply the case with a wifi camera, that I mount one in the stable and connect power to it there. Then using the wifi connection, and associated software, be able to view images from the camera on my laptop within the house, or do I need some type of router between the camera and the LIVEBOX.

Any advice/technical expertise/comment appreciated.

[pachapapa]

The LiveBox is a Router & Modem combined. The internet bit is more complicated though.

[brodie19]

[quote user="pachapapa"]The LiveBox is a Router & Modem combined. The internet bit is more complicated though.[/quote]

Thanks Pachapapa, I have the internet bit sussed...its the connection and working of a wifi camera that has me stumped at the moment. It would be great if all that happened is that I power up the camera, then find the wifi signal using the software that is available with these cameras, then view the images. Maybe I am just a bit over simplistic and optimistic in my hopes though.[8-)]

[deltamike]

http://eyeontheplace.com/cctv-camera-section/internet-cctv-what-else-do-i-need

This should answer all your questions and provide links to other answers for you.

[Quillan]

You will need either a static IP address which is difficult to get in France with some ISP's or access to a DDNS server. There are several free DDNS server services around you just need to Google them. You may also need a domain name as well but normally the DDNS supplier can sort that out for you. If you don't know what a DDNS server is, what it does or how it works you can look at the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_DNS

One good company (American) is http://dyn.com/dns/ which although you pay a small annual fee does allow you to 'try before you buy'. I use this to access my home server from anywhere in the world using any devise that has Internet access (my mobile phone for example).

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"]

You will need either a static IP address which is difficult to get in France with some ISP's or access to a DDNS server. There are several free DDNS server services around you just need to Google them. You may also need a domain name as well but normally the DDNS supplier can sort that out for you. If you don't know what a DDNS server is, what it does or how it works you can look at the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_DNS

One good company (American) is http://dyn.com/dns/ which although you pay a small annual fee does allow you to 'try before you buy'. I use this to access my home server from anywhere in the world using any devise that has Internet access (my mobile phone for example).

[/quote]

with Free in degrouped area IP fixe en default; in non dégroupé obtained via user account.

[brodie19]

Thanks Quillan..if I can just pick your brains further, just to clarify a couple of points please?

I take it you use IP cameras, or have knowledge of their use? Is it the case that after I connect the cameras (I have 2 on order), separately to a power source, that I run the software (provided by the company) to view the images via wifi on my laptop.

If I wish to view the cameras remotely or via the internet, I have to arrange DynamicDNS as I am yet unaware if this is supported via my Orange Livebox. Is this vaguely correct?

[pachapapa]

No real idea but presumably the software would integrate the camera into your own DLNA.

The router in a french "livebox" will have a DHCP option activated from the admin section of the box.

The box will be but not necessarily 192:168:1:1 the local net IPs will be assigned by the DHCP function.

For example my Samsung 3D TV has an IP as does the Samsung 3D Blu-Ray Player, etc; all controlled by the free Samsung software.

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="brodie19"]Thanks Quillan..if I can just pick your brains further, just to clarify a couple of points please?

I take it you use IP cameras, or have knowledge of their use? Is it the case that after I connect the cameras (I have 2 on order), separately to a power source, that I run the software (provided by the company) to view the images via wifi on my laptop.
If I wish to view the cameras remotely or via the internet, I have to arrange DynamicDNS as I am yet unaware if this is supported via my Orange Livebox. Is this vaguely correct?
[/quote]

No I don't but I was reading up on DDNS for something different but the subject of IP cameras also came up.

As far as I am aware this is how it may work. Your cameras are actually linked to a computer. The computer has a domain name. If you can't get a fixed IP address for your router then you have to use DDNS instead. A small piece of software runs on your PC which monitors your router. Every time the IP address of your router changes it tells the DDNS server which then updates the DNS service. The bit of software that runs on the computer normally makes any changes required to your router to allow this information to pass through.

Unless you have a commercial account with Orange you can't as far as I know have a fixed IP address with them which is why you need DDNS.

[pachapapa]

True no IP fixe except for pros, a DynDNS well yes.

A stolen comment from a happy bunny Orange client.

Bon, il m'a fallu 16 minutes avant d'avoir un conseiller au bout du fil qui m'a proposé des prix exhorbitant (20€/mois pour une IP fixe, orange se fout royalement de ses utilisateurs)
Je sens que je vais vite résilier mon abonnement qui fut de toute façon forcé par orange. Hé oui, ça existe ce genre de pratique et Orange y est bien accroché.
Bref, je passe chez FDN, pour enfin avoir du VRAI internet ![:D]

[Quillan]

The other problem you may well have (definitely with Orange, I can't speak for others but they are probably the same) is that ports 80 and 446 will be blocked. In fact most ISP's block any port numbers under 1200. This is because they don't want you hosting your own website at home. Port 80 is for http:// and port 446 is for https:// (SSL). There are way's round this which involve things like port redirection or changing the port numbers. If you do the latter you will have to change things in your router and in your firewall. There can also be issues with port 25 in that whilst it is used for outgoing email (SMTP) it can't accept anything inbound.

Why block these ports you may say? Well as I stated it's to do with running your own Internet server (there will be something about this in the small print of your contract) and also security. Ports 25, 80 and 446 are the most 'aimed at' ports by hackers for gaining control or watching your PC. If you do have to change port numbers then choose something different because the other port number hackers watch are 8008 (http) and 8009 (https) also 8080 and 8090 as they are common examples often quoted when showing people how to set up alternative ports, also don't use consecutive numbers like 1234 or 4567.

[pachapapa]

AliceBox NAT Port redirection:

Par exemple : Vous hébergez un site web à la maison sur l'ordinateur avec l'adresse l'IP 192.168.0.14 (carte Ethernet). Le serveur WEB (apache par exemple) est actif sur le port 80 en "http" (et sur le port 443 en "https"). Ajoutez une redirection du port 80 en TCP (entrant) vers l'adresse IP de destination 192.168.0.14 sur le même port de destination 80. Le site web sera accesible depuis l'extérieur sur l'adresse "http://83.21.22.23" (IP publique) et en local il sera accessible sur "http://192.168.0.14".

 

[Quillan]

Well there you go Free is the best Internet supplier in the France and will do everything you want. So cancel your Orange account an move to Free.

Just before you do that go read the other thread about Free and their "€2" mobile phone offer just so you know what type of company your dealing with i.e what they say you will get and what you actually get can be two different things. If you have anything to say about that put it in that thread not this so as not to confuse.

Be interested to have the link to that PPP so I can read it in context as I don't seem to be able to find it on their website, thanks.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Well there you go Free is the best Internet supplier in the France and will do everything you want. So cancel your Orange account an move to Free.

Just before you do that go read the other thread about Free and their "€2" mobile phone offer just so you know what type of company your dealing with i.e what they say you will get and what you actually get can be two different things. If you have anything to say about that put it in that thread not this so as not to confuse.

Be interested to have the link to that PPP so I can read it in context as I don't seem to be able to find it on their website, thanks.

[/quote]

The post referred to an AliceBox which pertains to Alice so the link would not be on a Free site; they are different FAIs.

The post was made in the context of it being easier to configure non Orange hardware. In fact Free have better server facilities than Alice; although since the takeover of Alice some of these are now available to Alice subscribers.

[pachapapa]

Sorry for delay with link but I had earlier cleared the IE Cache.

The link is via Alice assistance and refers to the AliceBox V5; in fact for a non dégroupé Alice subscriber it would make more sense to change to Free who then supply a technically superior Box but unfortunately not a Free Revolution Box. I shall be migrating in the spring from Alice to Free.

The Alice link...a bit of archaeology...better with Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee as you keep saying.

http://www.alicebox.fr/assistance/1576-alicebox-configurer-une-regle-nat-ou-redirection-de-port-les-regles-nat-et-redirections-de-plage-de-ports.html

[brodie19]

Thanks Quillan for your excellent advice. In simple terms, if  I am using an Orange LIVEBOX2, I will have to use a DYNDNS service...is that correct? I have been looking at the dyndns.org site and am presuming the DynDNS Pro package will be just what I need?

Thanks Pachapapa for your input, although I have not the foggiest what you are talking about![8-)]

[brodie19]

Quillan...sorry about this, but I noticed that dnsdynamic.org offer a free service, whilst dyn.com charge an annual fee. I take it that I do not manually have to update the paid service whereas I would have to manage the free service myself and update them with any change of IP.

This is all new to me. Thanks in anticipation.

[Quillan]

[quote user="brodie19"]Quillan...sorry about this, but I noticed that dnsdynamic.org offer a free service, whilst dyn.com charge an annual fee. I take it that I do not manually have to update the paid service whereas I would have to manage the free service myself and update them with any change of IP.
This is all new to me. Thanks in anticipation.
[/quote]

Your have to play with the ports a bit but it's not that difficult. Don't forget to set the new ports and devices up in the firewall as well (and on the PC if the cameras are plugged in to one).

As far as I can see the only issue with the free ones is that you have to login and use it every 28 days else they will cancel your account at 30 days if you don't use it. When you consider your only paying between $20 and $30 a year it's not that expensive. Also look for a supplier that has mirror servers inside Europe. There is a client that runs on the PC that the camera's are linked to that does all the work for you when the IP address changes. You can check this also remotely via the suppliers website in most cases.

[Quillan]

[quote user="brodie19"]Thanks Quillan for your excellent advice. In simple terms, if  I am using an Orange LIVEBOX2, I will have to use a DYNDNS service...is that correct? I have been looking at the dyndns.org site and am presuming the DynDNS Pro package will be just what I need?

Thanks Pachapapa for your input, although I have not the foggiest what you are talking about![8-)]
[/quote]

That makes three of us then. [;-)]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="brodie19"]Thanks Quillan for your excellent advice. In simple terms, if  I am using an Orange LIVEBOX2, I will have to use a DYNDNS service...is that correct? I have been looking at the dyndns.org site and am presuming the DynDNS Pro package will be just what I need?

Thanks Pachapapa for your input, although I have not the foggiest what you are talking about![8-)]
[/quote]

The promotion of a humble CCTV camera to the ethereal heights of a fully fledged website server decreases the signal to noise ratio but I did find it interesting to learn more about Orange. 

[brodie19]

[quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="brodie19"]Quillan...sorry about this, but I noticed that dnsdynamic.org offer a free service, whilst dyn.com charge an annual fee. I take it that I do not manually have to update the paid service whereas I would have to manage the free service myself and update them with any change of IP.

This is all new to me. Thanks in anticipation.

[/quote]

Your have to play with the ports a bit but it's not that difficult. Don't forget to set the new ports and devices up in the firewall as well (and on the PC if the cameras are plugged in to one).

As far as I can see the only issue with the free ones is that you have to login and use it every 28 days else they will cancel your account at 30 days if you don't use it. When you consider your only paying between $20 and $30 a year it's not that expensive. Also look for a supplier that has mirror servers inside Europe. There is a client that runs on the PC that the camera's are linked to that does all the work for you when the IP address changes. You can check this also remotely via the suppliers website in most cases.

[/quote]

Thnaks again for this Quillan. I think I will go with dyn.com as dnsdynamic.org state that you must update the domain yourself, or download software for Windows to do this in the background. I suppose then it is easier paying a small fee and let it be managed.

Do you know if if dyn.com uses mirror servers in Europe? I wont bother you again after this, other than to thank you for contributing to "Dynamic DNS for Dummies!"

[Richardbk]

[quote user="Quillan"]

The other problem you may well have (definitely with Orange, I can't speak for others but they are probably the same) is that ports 80 and 446 will be blocked. In fact most ISP's block any port numbers under 1200. This is because they don't want you hosting your own website at home. Port 80 is for http:// and port 446 is for https:// (SSL). There are way's round this which involve things like port redirection or changing the port numbers. If you do the latter you will have to change things in your router and in your firewall. There can also be issues with port 25 in that whilst it is used for outgoing email (SMTP) it can't accept anything inbound.

Why block these ports you may say? Well as I stated it's to do with running your own Internet server (there will be something about this in the small print of your contract) and also security. Ports 25, 80 and 446 are the most 'aimed at' ports by hackers for gaining control or watching your PC. If you do have to change port numbers then choose something different because the other port number hackers watch are 8008 (http) and 8009 (https) also 8080 and 8090 as they are common examples often quoted when showing people how to set up alternative ports, also don't use consecutive numbers like 1234 or 4567.

[/quote]

Not for me. I'm with Orange and using various ports including 80,

443, 22 ,25 and a few others without problems.  Never heard of this

before. In fact it would make the whole idea of trying to access your

home systems  by http, ftp ssh etc impossible and they would soon be out

of business. The livebox uses port 443 as the default for its remote

https connection. 

[Quillan]

[quote user="brodie19"][quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="brodie19"]Quillan...sorry about this, but I noticed that dnsdynamic.org offer a free service, whilst dyn.com charge an annual fee. I take it that I do not manually have to update the paid service whereas I would have to manage the free service myself and update them with any change of IP.
This is all new to me. Thanks in anticipation.
[/quote]

Your have to play with the ports a bit but it's not that difficult. Don't forget to set the new ports and devices up in the firewall as well (and on the PC if the cameras are plugged in to one).

As far as I can see the only issue with the free ones is that you have to login and use it every 28 days else they will cancel your account at 30 days if you don't use it. When you consider your only paying between $20 and $30 a year it's not that expensive. Also look for a supplier that has mirror servers inside Europe. There is a client that runs on the PC that the camera's are linked to that does all the work for you when the IP address changes. You can check this also remotely via the suppliers website in most cases.

[/quote]

Thnaks again for this Quillan. I think I will go with dyn.com as dnsdynamic.org state that you must update the domain yourself, or download software for Windows to do this in the background. I suppose then it is easier paying a small fee and let it be managed.
Do you know if if dyn.com uses mirror servers in Europe? I wont bother you again after this, other than to thank you for contributing to "Dynamic DNS for Dummies!"
[/quote]

Sorry no I don't, your have to have a look on their website.

[brodie19]

[quote user="Richardbk"][quote user="Quillan"]

The other problem you may well have (definitely with Orange, I can't speak for others but they are probably the same) is that ports 80 and 446 will be blocked. In fact most ISP's block any port numbers under 1200. This is because they don't want you hosting your own website at home. Port 80 is for http:// and port 446 is for https:// (SSL). There are way's round this which involve things like port redirection or changing the port numbers. If you do the latter you will have to change things in your router and in your firewall. There can also be issues with port 25 in that whilst it is used for outgoing email (SMTP) it can't accept anything inbound.

Why block these ports you may say? Well as I stated it's to do with running your own Internet server (there will be something about this in the small print of your contract) and also security. Ports 25, 80 and 446 are the most 'aimed at' ports by hackers for gaining control or watching your PC. If you do have to change port numbers then choose something different because the other port number hackers watch are 8008 (http) and 8009 (https) also 8080 and 8090 as they are common examples often quoted when showing people how to set up alternative ports, also don't use consecutive numbers like 1234 or 4567.

[/quote]

Not for me. I'm with Orange and using various ports including 80,

443, 22 ,25 and a few others without problems.  Never heard of this

before. In fact it would make the whole idea of trying to access your

home systems  by http, ftp ssh etc impossible and they would soon be out

of business. The livebox uses port 443 as the default for its remote

https connection. 

[/quote]

Thanks Richardbk...does that mean I do not have to do anything with DynamicDNS if I have an Orange Livebox 2 ?  [8-)]

[pachapapa]

No!

ports and internet protocol addresses are different fishes.