TNT par satellite

[Hereford]

We currently have a TNT box and a satellite dish so we get all basic French channels plus a lot of "foreign" channels free.

Suddenly on Monday we lost TF1 and some but not all of the other basic French channels (we still get Arté for example).  Our TNT card was renewed in February this year and we are up to date with mise-a-jour (no current message).

When we try to watch TF1 (yes we know it is rubbish but you learn a lot of French from watching quizzes for example) we just get the "chaine en option" message. TNT website not helpful as suggests that this message likely to mean the channel is no longer on Astra - it is!

Anyone else having this problem please?  We have done a full "search" for channels but that just looks for the foreign ones.

If need be we will go to shop tomorrow and ask but we thought we would ask here first as so many of you are knowledgeable about TV.

We do not have any other TV - we don't want UK tv as such, we can watch BBC World news via TNT if we need English.

Thanks

Mrs H

[Anton Redman]

Nothing on any of the forums I check regularly about problems. The first thing I would do is try your TNT box on a neighbour's who also have TNT dish and see if it works there.

If it does work there try their box on your dish. If you have the same missing channels with their box likely cause is the LNB (small thing on the end of the are has failed) or the coaxial cabl has a cut in the out seath somewhere. Replace LNB without moving dish look for problems with cable.

If you have the same missing channels using your receiver at their house, then double check with their box at your house but it sounds like the receiver is faulty.

[Hereford]

Thanks for reply.  Have to be the shop then!  Very small village, no close neighbours and no satellite dishes that I can see (apart from on two  "Brit" houses where they have Sky).  Us oldies could no more check the dish than fly I am afraid, ours is on the chimney and needs roof ladders to get to.

At least with your reply we know a bit more about it so very grateful.

Mrs H

[Loiseau]

I have the same set up as yours, and "lost" FR3 for a time, which was annoying. I could not work out why. Eventually, by my next visit (residence secondaire) it came back again..

Angela.

[Hereford]

Went to the shop today and apparently there is a rolling "mise-a-jour" going on and channels will be lost until it is our turn to get the screen message for an automatic update, they thought it might be today (just checked and no message) otherwise next Thursday!

However if we take the box into the shop today they will do a manual update for us - owner says it is difficult and we cannot do it ourselves.

Bizarre,

Thanks for thoughts.

Mrs H

Edit: Took box into shop this afternoon.  The rolling update for our box is next Thursday so they have lent us one to use for a week.  What an odd way to do updates,  In the meantime we now have all the French channels but nothing else, so will watch any news we want in English on the laptop!

[Martin963]

Sorry - I've come to this a bit late.   Indeed,  this is a current problem with TNTsat although generally it only affects boxes that are either left on 24/7 (ie not put into standby at night) or are disconnected for weeks at a time.

Like Sky boxes these decos need periodic software updates.   In this case it's because in the constant battle to tighten the encryption they have to tweek the software,  and if you miss an update it may eventually take some or all of the encrypted channels out.  So you should leave the box on standby overnight regularly to avoid this sort of problem.

In extremis many makes of TNTsat box will eventually need a little holiday back at the fabricant in order to have the update burned into them.   Apparently the updates rely on each other consecutively to a certain extent and if you miss enough of them then the current one on its own is insufficient to "repair" the box.   Many fabricants did this for the price of the postage until recently,  but increasingly they're charging up to €60 - which is almost the cost of a new SD box.

Which make is your box?   A good place to start is here where most boxes have their own thread.

http://www.tvnt.net/forum/le-materiel-decodeurs-paraboles-accessoires-f69.html

From that forum you might be able to glean which version of the software is current and then interrogate your box (via the set up menus) to see what it's actually running....

Sagem 74s are currently being updated (again) but it seems mine already had the update from several weeks ago because it was already running the current version (5.9).

[Hereford]

Thanks Martin. Our box is a Tekcomm.   We put it onto stand by every night (and then unplug it and the tv - we use every opportunity to save electricity!!).

We always "agree" to updates so that is why we were surprised when channels went missing. 

The shop where we bought it have lent us a box and will do the update on  ours for us next Thursday - apparently different boxes get updated for this "special" update on either "paire" or "impaire" weeks.  We had noticed reference to this on the TNT website but did not quite get the message correctly. Seems a bit much for TNT to cut some channels for, in our case, almost two weeks.  We can always watch TF1 or whatever on a laptop but not everyone can.  In our case the broad band is not fast so picture very shaky and freezes at intervals.

Thanks anyway, we should be back to normal by this time next week.

Mrs H

[Martin963]

Well it's the unplugging it after putting it into standby that's causing the problems.   But I have every sympathy with you,  my TNTsat Sagem box uses about 8 watts even in standby.  Doesn't sound much?   Well at one point I had about six sat receivers and a couple of DVD recorders all on standby the whole time,  and they were using about 100 watts doing nothing.   Not much?   At Devon prices that's 32 p per day or £116 per year.   So now they're turned off when not in use but I now have the same problem as you as I have to watch out for updates and make sure they get done. 

Moderner boxes are much more economic - my two HD French sat boxes drop to about 1 watt each in standby.

My Grundig freesat HD box is the worst - 15 watts even in standby.   Dreadful design.

Let us know how you get on......

[Hereford]

I replied to this post yesterday but it seems to have disappeared into the ether!

It seems that our box is "en panne". It refuses to update.

The shop are in contact with maker but with the public holidays this week it seems unlikely that we will get it back soon!

Thanks for help.

[Martin963]

Well keep at them.  It's not "en panne" as such,   it's merely missed a vital update on which hang all the subsequent ones.

Many people have managed to get a free "repair" direct with the manufacturer,  apart from the cost of sending the box back.   If the shop say it's going to cost say €60 then get the box back and ring the manufacturer's helpline and complain loudly.    It seems that the CSA are taking an interest in this problem as Canalsat are pretty much "required" to provide and adequate TNT service by satellite - after all it's officially sanctioned as one of the alternatives to terrestrial reception.   It shouldn't all depend on a missed software update.   Most manufacturers will do the update via a return to factory and most do do it for free.  

I have a lot of sympathy for you,  it's a ridiculous situation,  and one that must have Fransat (the alternative) chuckling as it's a problem that doesn't seem to happen much with them,  given that they are much less "controlling" than TNTsat/Canalsat.   As someone said,  "TNT gratuite mais a la sauce Canalsat".

[Hereford]

Local supplier has just had a reply from manufacturer - our box is "mort" and not repairable.

We have bought a new one. The local shop did not charge us anything for trying to sort this out for us.

Thanks for suggestions and help.

[Martin963]

Fair enough.  Jolly annoying for you though.

The moral is - don't unplug the box from the mains unless the house is going to be left unoccupied for a long while,   and put the box into standby at night.

Being a moderner box than my Sagem I imagine that in standby it'll only use 1W or so,  instead of the 8 - 10W that my Sagem uses.

Bon courage,  thanks for letting us know the outcome.

[Hereford]

We put the new box on standby the first day/night we had it.  When brought back to life it said (albeit in French!)  "checking for updates".   When we unplugged it from the wall the next night and then plugged back in next day and turned on it said "checking for updates".

So can you explain why we should not unplug it please?

Sorry to be thick.

[Martin963]

Well your new box may have "better" software - maybe Canalsat (who write the "cahier technique" for the manufacturers to follow) have learnt a few lessons and boxes are checking every time!   I can't say for certain - problem is that the software updates for ALL the different types of boxes (as you will have gathered) has to be transmitted at different times - the capacity for this on the sat is limited.    So yes of course there might be weeks and weeks on end where you *can* leave the box unplugged and you won't miss anything.   Of you could leave it unplugged for the vital few days when there *is* an update and then you've missed it..... How serious that is depends on the importance of the update.

So I don't know - it's your box - you take the risk.   But you've seen what *can* happen,  and the general recommendation on the fora from people who know far more than me is to do as I have suggested......

[Jako]

Not only does Fransat not enjoy these problems, there are more reasons to move to Fransat:

-better picture quality, both sd and hd channels are transmittted in better quality, selectable DVB subtitels and HbbTV on public channels.

-more HD channels: HD1, equipe 21, 6ter, 23,RMC are either in SD or even completely absent on TNTSAT

-existence of a Fransat CI+ module to be inserted directly in you TV equipped with dvbs2 tuner and CI+ slot or any satellite receiver with CI+ slot

-same price

-extra French free to air channels that are not available on Astra.

[Hereford]

Thanks Martin, we can understand now.  We will almost certainly leave it plugged in and just remember not to put the radio (for LW radio 4) anywhere near it because of the interference.  Can't win really...!

Thanks to Jako too, bit late for us now we have a new TNT box but will bear it in mind for the future certainly.

[Martin963]

Jako - whilst I agree with all your points (I have three Fransat receivers and two TNTsats) there's always the problem of getting an existing dish swung to 5 deg W.   Relatively simple for you and me but not perhaps within the means of many forum members.

And Fransat has had its share of c**p boxes that have failed prematurely - think Metronic Terboxes!   And what one gains on "extra French channels" is more than lost by the lack of other countries' programmes,  such as German TV and excellent classical radio stations on Astra 1....

And am I not right in thinking that the CI module is "officially" only compatible with TVs rather than sat receivers...?  I know there's someone in Germany selling the CAMs and cards and saying they'll work in a receiver (rather than a TV) but I'm not sure it's not a "hole" that Fransat won't be plugging fairly soon,  even if it exists at the moment.   After all,  it was a similar situation which was the Achilles' heel of TPS as far as piracy was concerned.....

Whilst I'm not fan of Canalsat it is the case that their initial crippling of ALL the TNTsat boxes has been relaxed somewhat.....   It's been a great help to me that the Sagem is now prepared to work on four satellites rather than being confined to Astra 1.   One would hope that they are similarly learning that software updates have to be a damned sight better organised from now on.....

Hereford - I'd be the first to say that you had rotten luck with your previous box.   And it may well be that you won't have any problems with the new one.   But remembering to leave it plugged in - say - once a week overnight is probably going to be a complicated extra burden on life!!!   But certainly for those of us over a certain age the idea of leaving things permanently plugged in does go a bit against the grain......   Modern technology (so I'm told) actually prefers to be left plugged in the whole time as it avoids "thermal shock" caused by warming up and cooling down,  but it's very important to keep anything like a sat box somewhere with good ventilation.   A lot of the Terboxes I mentioned were obviously speeded on their way to breakdown by "running hot"....

Anyway,  bon courage!!

[Hereford]

quote "to those of us over a certain age the idea of leaving things permanently plugged in does go a bit against the grain....."

Indeed!

We remember too that we went for TNT because of the overseas channels. German ones are very good (and two of our grandchildren are half German) - we often watch Eurosport DE - who cares in what language tennis (for example) is being commentated.  We watched the Berlin fireworks last New Years eve too and very good they were.

Thanks for all comments, TV and box are now plugged in so box should be happy.