URGENT- Euthanasia at SPA Carcassonne

[Rowan]

The SPA at Carcassonne is overflowing and they are planning on euthanising some of the dogs, which breaks my heart.

PLEASE PLEASE if you are thinking of getting a dog from there and were putting it off till better weather, or if you think you can find room for another dog in your home, now is the time. Apparently it has been years since this situation has arisen, and with luck this will be the last time it happens.

I am away in the States with work and so don't know which dogs they are looking at getting rid of, but all of them are lovely, and I am so scared about coming home and having to ask which ones have gone to new homes and which ones have GONE gone.

PLEASE!!!

Thanks to anyone who can help. They don't do Famille d'Acceuil, by the way.

Rowan

[Swissie]

My heart goes to you Rowan, and to the dogs. And yet- we need to face reality. There are thousands of dogs in those rescue centres, and I personally do not agree that a life behind bars is acceptable for those dogs. It seems so hard, but perhaps if people realised that they can't just dump dogs in rescue centres, and still say 'I don't believe in neutering- it's unnatural' - and had to face the reality of outcome - maybe some would begin to take responsibility. Our dogs and cats are all rescue- and I would never ever buy a dog from breeder- but I would rather dogs were euthanased then live behind bars for years and years. A friend of mine used to have a senior post in the Dog's Trust - and he finally left, as he agreed.

[Christine Animal]

That's your way of thinking Swissie.  But so many people are now in rescue and are getting a lot of them out of there.  Just imagine having one put down, when he might have been rescued at a later date.  You can never know and it's a terrible decision to take, one that I never would.  There are other solutions if you work hard enough to realise them.

 

[Swissie]

Christine, I cannot tell you how much admiration I have for you and your colleagues and the amazing work you do. I just cannot bear to see dogs kept in a cage for years and years - it just breaks my heart. But How I do understand how hard it is.  Swissie

[Quillan]

I got my Max from there, it was riddled with Parvovirus at one stage as some may remember. When we visited there were clearly some dogs that had mental health problems, pacing the compound repeatedly from side to side.

Sadly its a sign of the times we live in that these animals are abandoned and of course its not their fault. It is a terrible shame but what can they do, at least they are not left on the autoroute or to starve to death.

One thing that does amaze me is that it appears the norm for the SPA not to sterilize animals before they are adopted. My old dog that came from Wood Green was sterilized before we could take him and I believe it may eventually help to control the numbers of abandoned animals but of course its not an overnight fix.

[Swissie]

Do you have any idea why they do not sterelize/spey Quillan? In the UK and here in CH it is done automatically - why not in France?

It is clear that there are many animals in refuges who could never be re-homed as they are damaged. Like those you saw pacing up and down. Near here we have a small Zoo, and they have a Polar bear that paces up and down, up and down, endlessly, in his concrete compound. When I asked to see the manager to ask him why this animal was not put out of his misery, he was shocked and angry - saying they had had said animal for 30 years and they were very attached to it- and the towns residents would be up in arms. So tragic.

[Quillan]

No I don't know, I thought somebody might come alone and explain, it seems a bit daft.

So obviously the bear if for the self gratification of the zoo keeper and the town residents, no thought what so ever about the bears mental state and the clear cruelty of keeping it locked away in a concrete cell, for that's what it is. We are not nice animals us humans. [:(]

[Swissie]

Apologies to the OP.

I'd like to repeat her plea for the dogs of SPA Carcassonne - if you can give a home to a dog, please help.

[WJT]

Anyone seen the iconic bears kept in the hole at Bern, Switzerland? [:'(]

[Swissie]

I did, as a child  - and will never ever forget it. I've hated seeing animals in cages ever since. My father had a wicker basket with carrots and other tit bits, and leant over- and the biggest bear caught the basket and tore it to pieces. It was quite a violent scene. I have been lobbying ever since to get bears out, as have many others - and last year they were transplanted into a new large compound, much better adapted (! not ideal) - sadly the security was breached by a mentally handicapped man who was mauled by a bear, and the bear shot- not fatally. I should try and find current info.

[WJT]

My husband and I saw them about ten years ago in the hole and was very upset at the sight and them having to look up at us using their paws in begging motions from the dark for food. People were just chucking any old thing down there for them. Even now whenever we see or describe a pitiful situation with an animal, we always refer to "like the bears in Bern". So happy to hear that they are kept in better conditions.

[Rowan]

Ref neutering at Carcassonne, it was the first thing I asked. I was told that it was a question of money. To adopt a dog costs €90, and this covers basic vet costs and tattooing. The feeling is that no one would adopt animals if they had to pay for castration or sterilisation on top of that. Better to have the dogs adopted "intact" than not adopted at all!

Ref dogs left for years behind bars, I personally think it is best to keep them alive, in the hope of future adoption. We have dogs adopted after 3, 4 years who adjust wonderfully to the world outside and who definitely deserve a better life.

[Swissie]

Rowan, believe me I so respect the work you do as volunteers. I have written to SPA Carcassonne about the reason they do not castrate/sterilise, and am awaiting reply. Your post came after my query with them. It is a very difficult question - but I still think I do not agree that it is a good idea to release dogs back to produce more and more. it just does not make sense to me at all.

As far as dogs behind bars for years - it is again a very tough question. And again, with respect, I do not agree that it is fair. Some dogs in particular if showing signs to damage, pacing, socialisation, or in pain or requiring expensive treatment- would be better put to sleep IMOHO. We will just have to disagree on this one. Bonne chance with the wonderful work you do, and give the dogs you see today a good tickle behind the ears from me.  Swissie

[Christine Animal]

[quote user="Swissie"] I have written to SPA Carcassonne about the reason they do not castrate/sterilise, and am awaiting reply. [/quote]

Really Swissie!   Maybe you could join a cheque to your letter to help them pay for sterilisation if you feel so strongly about it.  Why don't you send the money for them to have a female spayed?  It would be better than nothing.  If you don't like them being "behind bars", why don't you volunteer to take them out for a walk as a lot of other kind people like Rowan do?

They are doing what they can with the funds available and at least they are doing something.  I am getting tired of all this armchair knocking and criticising.

 

[Swissie]

Christine I can assure you the last thing I want to do is criticize- and I have stated I am full of admiration for what the SPA and its volunteers do. I think it is positive to have discussions about the best way to proceed- the fact is that in the UK all animals are sterilized before re-homing- and I personally think it is wrong to put dogs back without doing so, as it compounds the problem. I am truly interested in discussion and finding solutions, NOT criticizing. I hope Rowan understands that. It is essential to draw back from time to time and re-assess strategies and ways of doing things- for all charities, including how money is raised and spent, and where savings can be made. My e-mail was replied to by Florence, and I am sure she will agree query was in not way aggressive nor critical- but just trying to understand the issues.

BTW I mentioned some time ago the fact that most supermarkets in the UK allow animal charities to have a large box for food donations by the way-out door. It is an excellent way to save money. Is that ever done in France?  it is also a great way to flag up the local SPA and put 'adverts' about dogs awaiting adoption, on a picture board at the back of the box, frequently replaced.

Full respect for what the SPA and volunteers do, I can assure you (and you have no idea of course about own financial and practical support for my local SPA, of course).

[Rowan]

Swissie

I was not offended at all by your comments. If I had my way no dog would be rehomed without being sterilised, either, but it is far more expensive than the SPA can afford. Florence is pro castration, too, as are all the volunteers. All the dogs I have had have been "done" either by the rescue centre or by me (well, not actually by me, I mean by a vet!), and I would love it to be SPA policy. But it is better to rehome the dogs unsterilised than not at all, I think.

I have just come back from the US, where I was with work, and one thing they do there is take shelter dogs to malls etc and get them to meet people. The dogs themselves are available for adoption, but it is also a good way to publicise the local refuge. I would love to do something like that here, but not sure how it would go down.....Will ask Florence.

As for euthanasia, a remarkable number of dogs are able to adapt to life in kennels, especially if they share with another dog and are played with and walked regularly, which is why volunteers are so important.

[Swissie]

Hi Rowan, thank you for your reply. I am so glad you were not offended and realised I truly respect the work of the SPA, the volunteers, and that i truly have the animals welfare at heart. Surely the SPAs could negotiate special rates with vets, perhaps also work with veterinary schools, etc. What would be the cost per animal, I wonder.

It seems madness to release dogs back unneutered. If people are not prepared to pay a reduced cost, they are unlikely to pay full cost afterwards. And we end up with 100s more unwanted puppies, a vicious circle. Is there a proper debate going on within the SPA (for the whole of France, not just yours) and a determined way to find solutions. This IS NOT A CRITICISM, but sometimes we get so busy solving everyday issues, that we lose sight of the bigger picture. Every dog is important - but solutions need to be global. Do you see what I mean.           Amitiés et bonne chance   Odile

PS - just received a lovely reply from the volunteer at the SPA, who totally agrees sterilisation is paramount in solving the problem. She has asked for discretion, as apparently volunteers are not allowed to mention that euthanasia does take place. Thanks.

[Christine Animal]

Of course they agree with sterilisation!  It was really unnecessary to bother them asking why they don't do it when it is obvious it's because they can't afford it.

On the French rescue forum they often avoid putting the name of the fourrière or refuge when posting about a pet to be saved because people interfere and contact them directly instead of going through the person who posted.  This causes a lot of trouble and can put the well being of the animals at risk.

You obviously missed a thread Swissie where I explained that there are two different types of SPA in France.  Most of the SPA de Paris refuges have all the animals spayed.  Carcassonne is a private refuge affiliated with Lyon and nothing to do with the SPA de Paris.

 

[Swissie]

The current cost of spaying is about E48 - I am sure rates could be lowered for SPAs by negotiation with local vets. Also possible to organise spaying/castrating sessions with the local Vet School, perhaps - students with close senior supervision. I am sure that are ways and means out there.

Let's say a rate of E30 to 40 can be negotiated- the difference in cost would not be huge, from E90 to about E120/130- I have great doubts about the seriousness and ability to care for a dog and pay for future vet. cost, etc, for any family or individual wanting to adopt a dog, if they cannot afford the difference. This is NOT a criticism, but a sincere discussion - having dogs adopted is of course the aim, but not in any conditions. In the UK the RSPCA will seriously discuss each case with a prospective adoptor, and make as sure as they can that conditions will be right for the animal, before releasing the dog. Any family who cannot/do not want to pay that small difference, I'd have concerns about.

I do wonder whether there is also a cultural difference here, especially for the South, too. It is a fact that very few French men have the 'snip' after having children (and certainly before) - compared to UK. Is it the case that French people in traditional rural areas, might consider a dog which has been spayed/castrated, as not whole, unnatural somehow? It is certainly the case in the Valais, in Switzerland, with a long hunting tradition.

[Quillan]

I think there is also a difference in vets prices down south as well. The three vets I know all charge around 100/120 Euros to sterilize dogs, females are a bit more. Down here its the cost what with so many being unemployed, about 1 in 4.. My local vet does not get so many injured hunt dogs in anymore, he says its too expensive for the hunters so they just shoot them instead. Carcassonne is my local SPA by the way. I know the SPA in Carcassonne does use one particular vet so perhaps they could get and then offer a preferential rate to those adopting dogs (and cats). There are ways of putting things over that makes it difficult for people to say no,same result different angle if you get my drift.

[Christine Animal]

[quote user="Swissie"]The current cost of spaying is about E48.
[/quote]

How can you come on here and make people believe such things?  Depending on vets, the current cost of spaying a female dog is more like around 180 euros minimum.  Please stop preaching on subjects you know nothing about.  It can be very misleading.

 

[Swissie]

I am so sorry Christine. Mislead is the last thing I want to do> I have enquired with French friends, and one of them had a setter done recently for E48.

I have also checked my local SPA on the French side (I live just over the border In Switzerland - where both refuges insist on sterilising all animals before releasing), in Pontarlier (25 Franche-Comté). They are affiliated to Lyon. Their website explains clearly why they insist on sterilising and vaccinating all animals before release. I was surprised that they charge E155 per dog/bitch. This is NOT an affluent area, and industries here have been much affected by the 'crise'. They clearly feel it is better not to place a dog, then to place it with people who cannot afford to look after it properly, or where it is likely to reproduce on a regular basis- causing 1000s more cats and dogs to be abandonned, over and over again.

I am continuing with this thread not to antagonise or criticise, but because I feel it is essential to find solutions. Best regards  odile

[Quillan]

I just found the bill for having Max 'done' which was at the big veterinary practice in Carcassonne, it was 128 Euros. As I said females are a bit more, another +30 or 40 Euros. Bit cheaper down here from where you are Christine but I guess its down to affordability and what the market can take. I wish I could have got him 'done' for 48 Euros but there you go. I am wondering if Odile miss heard and didn't pick up on the '1' before the 48 because that seems incredibly cheap.

[Russethouse]

 When this board first started one of the first things that became apparent was how different things were in different parts of France, therefore Swissie I would suggest that when you quote figures like this you actually say where you are, that way others in different areas can give their figures too.

In addition I would think its not simply a case of having all done dogs done? Some must be too young or possibly too old ?

 

[Christine Animal]

It's a shame the original reason for this thread has been forgotten.

I prefer to drop out of it as Odile will obviously persist with her far-fetched statements.