finches

[johnycarper]

Not sure if this is the correct place but here goes,has anyone else had problems this year with baby birds dying.We have a lot of yellow finches nesting in the barn walls and now the chicks are coming out they only last a day or so and then die.There seems nothing wrong with them they just sit on the floor shake a lot and then sadly die.

Any ideas anyone,

john

[ventodue]

Difficult to say ...

The 'shaking' you describe could either be normal begging behaviour ... or it could be symptomatic of some kind of poisoning, most likely parasitic or fungal in origin.  Are the parents trying to feed the fledglings at all?

P.s. It might help if we can get the species defined (there's no such bird as a yellow finch). Have a look on tinternet at pictures of Greenfinch - here for example:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/g/greenfinch/

... and say if that's what they are.  (Unusual for Greenfinch to be nesting in a barn wall, tho'.  They normally nest in bushes ...)

A+

Craig

 

[Patf]

Maybe they shouldn't be "sitting on the floor" at their stage of development. They should still be in the nest.

Perhaps a cat has disturbed them, or some other predator.

[johnycarper]

Yes that's definitely them and they are green finches and some nest in the walls but a lot are in the bushes around us,The parents seem to hang around but not for long and I have found the birds on the floor and picked them up only to go back a bit later and the chicks are dead. Its not our cats as we have watched out for them and we find the dead ones where the cats do not go,its very sad but I do not see that there is anything we can do,

[andyh4]

2 thoughts

1.  insecticide

2. Cuckoo

 

If the former I would have thought the chicks would have died in the nest and only dead ones would have been found on the ground. 

For the latter, the cuckoo chick forces out the smaller natural born birds from the nest and they die from the fall or on the ground.  If it is this and you can see into the nest you should see a single chick remaining.

[ventodue]

[quote user="johnycarper"]Yes, they are Greenfinches ... <snip> [/quote]

Ok, that's useful to know.

If it's just the fledglings that are dieing, that suggests a feeding problem.  For example, high fledgling mortality in some small bird species has been linked to an absence of insects at the time when they leave the nest.

Another thought is that Greenfinches (and Chaffinches) can suffer from a disease called 'Finch trichomonosis'.  It's caused by a protozoal parasite, Trichomonas gallinae, whch most commonly infects pigeons and doves, but can jump species. There was a significant outbreak of the disease in the wild finch population in the UK during the mid-2000s.

However, that doesn't explain why it's only the fledgings that are dieing - unless they are particularly vulnerable to it (which I don't know).

But whatever it is, I supect there's nothing you can do, I'm afraid.  It will be interesting to see if the parents try to second brood.

 

 

[ventodue]

I'd be surprised if it was Cuckoo parasitism, Andy:

1.  The young Cuckoo ejects its 'siblings' much earlier, i.e. either as eggs or as nestlings, not as fledglings.

EDIT:  BUT see my next posting ...[:$]

If it waited that long, it couldn't hog all the food that its foster parents bring - which it needs to, to be able to grow big enuf to migrate.

2.  Greenfinch is not a normal host of Cuckoo.  I quote:

"Finches were very uncommon hosts in these B.T.O. data, only three species (all Carduelinae) being involved:  Linnet, Carduelis cannabina; Greenfinch, C. chloris; Bullfinch, Pyrrhula pyrrhula and each having very low rates of parasitism (0.1% or less).  None was recorded as rearing the parasite successfully."

Source: "Cuckoos reared by unusual hosts in Britain", http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00063658109476729)

That said, I have checked and it appears that fledgling Greenfinches are fed on seeds, not insects (unlike, for example, Chaffinches).  So the mystery remains ...

[ventodue]

[quote user="Patf"]Maybe they shouldn't be "sitting on the floor" at their stage of development. They should still be in the nest.[/quote]

Ooh, good point, Pat.  I shouldn't jump to conclusions ...[;-)]

John, when you say 'baby birds', do you mean birds that already have a fair sprouting of feathers?  Or are they still (more or less) naked?

[johnycarper]

No these all have feathers and can fly a short distance but then seem to sit on the floor and after a while start shaking and then die,I think it must be a viral type thing and hopefully the mothers will have another brood.

[ventodue]

[quote user="johnycarper"]No, these all have feathers and can fly a short distance .. [/quote]

Ok, ta John - that was the assumption I'd made.

[quote user="johnycarper"]... but then seem to sit on the floor and after a while start shaking and then die.  I think it must be a viral type thing [/quote]

Yeah, I suspect you're not far off the truth - poisoning, infection, that kind of thing.  The question is, why is it only the fledglings that seem to be affected? (I say, 'seem', because it's possible that adults may also be dieing, but they're doing so out of your view).   And how come the chicks have got thru to this age, and not croaked earlier?  That would suggest either an infection with a fairly long incubation period.  Or that something new has arrived in their environment.

Maybe someone has sprayed pesticide/herbicide over their food source?  This isn't a great time of year for seed-eaters, so the choice of food source may be limited.  You could try getting some niger/nyjer/nijer* (spell it as you like ...) seed and seeing if they show any interest. And don't forget a little water in a shallow saucer, too - dehydration also causes small bird mortality.

* Or any similar small seed: one of the mixes sold in your local garden centre for canaries will do the job.

[johnycarper]

No it cannot be the food as I have it shipped over from the uk from one of the per suppliers and I only use the premium sun flower hearts as they make less mess on the bosses garden.I wonder if it is just a viral thing where it has been so damp but fingers crossed not found any dead now for two days so hopefully that's the end of it.

[ventodue]

Hope so.  In the meanwhile, you might want to look at this, an advice note from the Garden Bird Health Initiative on how to respond to a possible outbreak of Trichomoniasis.  Basically, you should stop feeding for a couple of weeks.

http://www.ufaw.org.uk/documents/GBHi_Trichomonasadvicesheet_Sep06.pdf

 

[johnycarper]

Thanks for that and that sounds just like we have and it looks like it only affected the chicks as I have not found any adult birds dead,it also seem to be over as all the chicks have now gone.