Motorbike Importation: another question!

[Gail Smith]

I have read the response from Sunday driver to the recent question on importation and am about to get myself into a similar, but not identical, situation.

I am buying a bike on uk e-bay and have only got 4 days before the bike auction ends..so am trying to get some information to help me before then.

Because the uk prices are sooooo much lower than here, I am about to buy 2003 Yamaha FJR 1300 off ebay uk which is 140+ BHP. I am not clear from Sundaydrivers answer to "Allmech's" question on importation, whether the 'EU whole vehicle certificate of conformity' is an actual piece of paper which comes with the bike, like the registration document, or something which I have to get; either when i buy in uk or when i bring it over here. I would like to know so that i can be clear on what to ask the seller to provide. I am also not sure if the response to "Allmech's" question is still aplicable to me as his bike is actually within the French legislation BHP limit...mine will not be and presumably will need something more...and cost more too!

I am also interested in anyones comment on the fact that most of these big bikes for sale in france privately ( and i have been looking at R1's, SuprBlackbirds and GSXR 1000's) are all at their full horsepower, not limited to 106bhp! I know for a fact that the superblackbird's restriction is just a simple, reversible mechanical exhaust modification, though i think some of the others are electronic restrictions.

Anybody got any knowledge on how the FJR 1300 is restricted. Its a very modern, electronic bike so i suspect its something which is not easy to reverse. And and BIG question......how much (roughly) does it cost to get a bike through this registration/modification process if its a 150bhp-type bike.

 

cheers

gail

[Sunday Driver]

Yamaha France will issue a partial certificate of conformity to you - specific to your particular bike and containing the all important type approval number, CV and power rating, plus other technical data.  It'll be "partial" certificate because your engine is not homolgated for France with it's current power rating.

In France, the "100bhp rule" applies. The Yamaha France website shows the new FJR1300 with a maximum power rating of 79.7 kW (108 bhp) at 7,500 rpm.  Even a new Hayabusa in French "trim" is only rated at 78kW (106bhp).

So, your partial certificate will mention the 140bhp as a homologation exception, so you'll have to restrict your engine down to the French level then submit the bike for a single vehicle approval inspection.  I'm not sure how you restrict an FJR, but for a GSXR1000 it's a simple matter of cutting the black/brown wire. What normally happens is you'd take it to a bike garage for restricting and they'll provide you with a "certificat de bridage" which you take to the DRIRE when you go for the SVA test.  The DRIRE will then issue an updated type approval conformity certificate which you use for registering at your prefecture. 

Given that you've more research to do on this power issue, the 4 day deadline on e-bay might be a problem.  Remember, if you do buy it and you can't get it legal for France (big fines/driving bans), then you're stuck.

Registration costs depend upon the CV fiscal rating (it'll be on the DRIRE certificate), but I'd budget on around 160-180 euros.  I have read of garages charging 200 euros to restrict a bike, but again I've heard of others who have done it free.

 

 

[Lizfjr]

Gail,

I own an FJR1300. If you go to www.fjrowners.com., you will find the info you are looking for. I'll go and have a look in the meantime for you.

My bike is full UK spec BHP, but I did briefly own a restricted one a few years ago. The main difference comes at 7000 RPM + where the power just fades.

I am now on my third FJR and thinking of upgrading to the new 2006 model. Unfortunately this means selling my current bike privately in the UK and then, I think, buying in France and de restricting. We are hoping to move over just as soon as our house here is sold. My husband owns one too.

It's a great bike. You won't regret your purchase.

Liz

[Lizfjr]

Ah. Knew it would be there somewhere. Try here. http://www.fjrowners.ws/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=558&highlight=french

and here http://www.fjrowners.ws/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=181&highlight=.

There's also a French owners form which is http://www.etlamarmotte.net/index.php

You might also be interested in www.biker-babe.org which is a forum for women bikers.

[Gail Smith]

Thanks for that Liz and Sunday driver.  Lots of information to think about and research.

We left an R1 and a 1200 Bandit in the UK because we couldnt see that we could get them registered here.  We have been bikeless for over 2 years and the strain is beginning to tell.  Last night Mike went to try his leathers on just to make sure they still fitted and then refused to take them off and sat all evening in them........ lol.

I had to laugh at the Bikerbabes thing, I have my grandchildren staying at the moment so I am a bit past bikerbabing...

We will look at the sites you mentioned and maybe have a rethink about getting a UK bike.

 

Gail

[powerdesal]

I imagine leathers are like wet-suits, they shrink over the years.[:D]

[Sunday Driver]

My leather pants are so tight now, I must have spent half my time sitting in water....[:(]

 

[Gail Smith]

thanks to all for the replies...especially the links to the FJR owners site where there was indeed a discussion on exactly my question. Its nice when considering laying out this sort of dosh on a uk bike, to know for sure that somebody else has successfully gone through the same process with exactly the same bike..you hear so many horror stories on this issue. And now i know why there are so many ebay auctions for FJR inlet pipes...i guess everyone over here who has one, has two sets..a legal set and the 'adrenalin' set :-) mmmmmmmmm

I have now taken off my leathers as i feel i am closer to being able to use them in anger!! just got to get up the courage to part with the cash.

thanks again

mike

[Gail Smith]

i am back again with another query as i missed the bike i was chasing on e-bay. I am now looking at buying a pan european, again from uk. I remember Sunday Driver mentioning that post 2003 bikes all have the ec conformity dertificate.

I am looking at pre-2003 bikes; specifically a 1998 and 2000 model. Will Honda Uk still be able to issue this partial certificate, that Sunday Driver mentioned? Is there anything else (for older bikes) that i need to be aware of regarding conformity before buying? Does anyone have any knowledge or opinions on importing a pan european (ST1100)?

cheers

[Sunday Driver]

Post 2003 bikes are a doddle, because the EU certificate of conformity means you just go straight to the prefecture to register it.  Pre-2003 bikes, however, need to conform to French national type approval - that's when you have to get an attestation d'identite from Honda's French head office.  The attestation is "partial" because the lights and speedo are UK specific and not compliant with French standards.  Yes, I know - post 2003 bikes have the same headlights and MPH speedo, but in their case, the EU certificate is the magic document that let's you Pass Go......

I imported my 1992 Pan last year.  I wrote to Honda France for an attestation d'identite and after three months of chasing them (they lost my file and cheque, etc and the person who had been dealing with my enquiry had now "left" the company), they eventually sent me my partial attestation.

One of the problems was that the bike was too old to have a 17 digit VIN number - it just had the older SC XXXXX  frame number (plus the fact that the DVLA had missed off a digit on the V5C!!!) so I had to strip down the tupperware, take a digital photo of the actual frame plate and send it off to them with a signed attestation sur honneur.  Your 1998/2000 bike should have a pukka VIN number, so you should have no problems there, but do make sure it's a UK spec bike, and not a grey Japanese/US/Canadian import. If it is a grey import, then forget it! 

Of course, the partial attestation d'identite mentioned the headlamps and MPH speedo as exceptions, and the correct procedure would have been to take the bike to a Honda dealer to have the headlamp changed (dual speedo, so no problem there) and for them to issue a compliance certificate/letter.  The bike should then have been booked into the DRIRE for a single vehicle approval inspection (reception de titre isole).  The SVA type approval certificate (87 euros) should then have been used for registration at the prefecture.

However, being a novice to this game at the time, I just took the attestation to the prefecture and they accepted it without question.  Perhaps I just encountered a prefecture clerk who appreciated my jokes......

 

[Gail Smith]

thanks very much..thats great information. So i am wasting my time asking the vendors to contact Honda Uk for a cert.of conformity as per 2003 bikes. I will contact them again and ask them to confirm, absolutely, that the bikes are UK imports as that seems to be the only real no-go situation.

I forgot you had a Pan as well. I am still looking at the possibility of buying a french one but even a 1991 model seems to be 4000 euro on e-bay, whilst in Uk I am following a couple of mid-90's bikes with low mileage for less than that. Have even found a 1990 model for less than 2000 euros. I am pulled towards the french bikes though, as there is always that nagging doubt that the system here might bite back and i find i can't register it.

As you have one, do they all have ABS and traction control or was it introduced later? i am interested in the one in the ebay link below and this has both and its a 1995

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&item=300032220419&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I really hope i can find a good one at the right price cos, after all the research and considering what my needs are in France (i definitely don't need an R1 like I had before) i think the pan is perfect for our needs.

[Sunday Driver]

ABS and traction control were introduced in 1992 alongside the standard version.  In 1994, they changed the colour of the lower fairings from dark grey to light grey and changed the side "Pan European" logo from a sticker to a plastic badge.  In 1995 (chassis range SC28 45000001 onwards) they introduced a 10cm higher windscreen with the cat's eyes vents, together with some changes to the exhaust system to comply with noise restrictions and altered the front and rear damping characteristics.

The bike shown on your E-Bay link looks like a genuine 1995 model and looks to be in good condition.  Mileage is nominal (they're good for starship mileages) and the service history is all there.  A plus point is that the original exhaust has been replaced by a non OEM system (same as mine) - it costs around £400 instead of the £1,000 asked by Honda!

The "Buy it now" price of £3,000 is reasonable for this particular model.

It has some minor scuffing around the base of the paniers, so I suspect it's been laid down at some point.  The weight (300kg dry) can lead to it falling over at times at the halt if your not careful and whilst the side "wings" do help keep the fairing parts from being damaged, the panniers can take a bit of scrape.  No real problems with this damage - it doesn't indicate a serious slide down the road!

Best tyres for the Pan are Bridgstone BT020s.  They give reasonable mileage (for a heavy bike) and excellent grip in the wet.  Fit a Givi/Kappa topbox with a back rest pad for the pillion and get an Autocom system for chatting/listening to music/hands free phone use.  About £200 fitted by Autocom at Warwick and worth every penny.

The Pan is ideal for long distance touring.  Rock solid on the road, comfortable, with good luggage capacity.  It's just a heavy beast at rest, but still very well balanced for impressive "feet-up" slow riding.

See this Pan owners' [url=http://www.st1100.org]website[/url] for loads of helpful information on the bike.

 

 

[Gail Smith]

i hate computers!!!!!!!

i have just typed a reply TWICE and lost it before posting! so here goes and this one has to be shorter.

Many thanks for the comments. i am looking at several pans now on e-bay. the one you looked at for me may not be uk spec...so steering clear until i know. Am looking too at a 2002 model ST1300 whose owner has contacted Honda and they are sending him its cert of conformity...i thought only post 2003 had these? Does this mean i don't have to change the lights and speedo? will i simply have to go the french registration offices and not have to go thro' all the garage mods etc? I assume this pan is too powerful though and will have to be restricted?

when i finally buy one, i will have to buy you a bottle of your favourite tipple:-)

[Sunday Driver]

People tend to talk about a "certificate of conformity" as a generic description.  You'll probably get a Honda attestation for national type approval purposes.

The standard UK ST1300 is rated at 117bhp whereas the French bike is rated at 78kw (106bhp), so you'd have to restrict it down the the French limit.  There again, Honda understated the power rating on my own attestation (well under the limit, thank you very much!) so they might just do the same for the ST1300.

Speedo should be OK as it's a dual reading unit.  Lights may have to be changed, though.  You'll have to see what the attestation says.

 

[Gail Smith]

I am hoping this is my last question

I am about to buy the 2002 ST1300. If you want to see the bike, the ebay link is below as your comments and opinions are always valued.

I have the VIN and Honda UK have confirmed to me that it was imported by them and is a Uk bike. It has a full Certificate of Conformity, as all Pan Europeans had this from 2002 onwards. I understand that this still means i will have to have the bikes power reduced a bit and that the speedo will be ok as its dual scale, but if its got the full conformity cert. rather than an attestation, will that mean that the headlight will not need to be changed? ie. that it conforms also?

The bike looks very clean FSH and a genuine sale and the price looks reasonable at £5k. What do you think?

Any comments greatly appreciated.

many thanks

mike & Gail

oops forgot the link

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220033092747&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ARTQ%3AUK%3A1&rd=1

[Sunday Driver]

The bike looks good - a bit high on the mileage, but as the seller says, that's what the bike was designed for.  It has all the right bits on it too and the colour is one of the better ones. The ST1300 is also a touch lighter than it's predecessor.

The original 2002 ST1300s suffered from a severe wobble at speeds above 160kph (100mph) and were subject to a Honda recall for a swing arm modification, so make sure you get evidence that the bike was done. Other than complaints of excessive heat reaching the rider in high temperatures, there have been no other problems with this bike.

Regardless of the CoC, your bike must comply with the French the code de la route - ie, lights must not dazzle oncoming drivers.  Pan lights are adjustable, so you may be able to avoid having to replace the units.  

 

[Gail Smith]

well i have bought it! maanged to get it for £4900, which i am very pleased with. its difficult to get even a 10 year old BMWR1100RT over here for that, and the Pans I have found have all been selling for at least £6000, so i am glad i decided to buy in the uk. Your advice helped me a lot with this...so thanks.

The lights have no bias at all on the ST1300, so there is no difference between those fitted to french bikes or Uk imports, and as you say, they are adjustable.

i am going over to uk to collect it friday, see my family and ride back on Monday..really looking forward to it.

au revoir to you all

brrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............brrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm!!

[Sunday Driver]

[:D][:D][:D]

Well done.  You'll love the bike!

 

[Bob T]

Hi everyone. Just found this thread and it is very interesting. We moved to the Dordogne 2 years ago and have been trying to get our BMW R1100S's French registered ever since.

Mine is a 2004 bought new by me and my wifes is a 2001 bought second hand. I asked BMW UK for a C of C for them and was only given one for mine. This is a European document for the factory. The prefecture in Perigueux will nor accept it and insist that I ned one from BMW France. BMW France want me to pay around 150 euro for one for each bike. I don't understand why as the C of C even has the Puissance fiscal on it.

Does this happen in other departments apart from the Dordogne?

We will run the bikes on UK lates, something I don't like to do, until we get this sorted. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Bob

Bike blog on : http://bikesindordogne.blogspot.com/

[Montybird]

Hi Bob,

Funny you should post here as I was trawling the net the other day for ex-pat bikers in the Dordogne and came accross your website. Small world isn't it!

Anyway, with regard to your bike registration problem we have a very similar tale to tell.  We've also been trying to for past 2 years to get our bikes registered here with no success.  Most of the problems down to our own ignorance of not realising about the horse power limit here, if only we'd known then what we know now.  We're probably gonna get shot down in flames for this by other 'holier than tho' members but we've finally come to the solution that the only way to keep our bikes on the road here is to get them re-registed back in the UK and take out UK Insurance.  We've got the insurance sorted with a company that offers 365 days a year european cover with breakdown assistance.  I can honestly say we tried everything to do this the 'legal French' way but there was just no way I could get mine registered.  Long story and I wont bore you with it all now.  At least were back riding them again now after 2 years of hassle.

Hope we can all get together some time soon to share our experiences etc.

Take care for now.

[Sunday Driver]

Bob

I don't understand why it's taken you all of two years just to get a CoC from BMW UK then have it refused by your prefecture [8-)].

Go to your prefecture's website [url=http://www.dordogne.pref.gouv.fr/sections/droits_et_demarches/?spl_c=547228&spl_f=N0/N21/N368/N367/F1050&spl_l=44&submit=OK]HERE[/url] and print off their page.  The relevent paragraph is as below - highlight the bit I've marked in italics - and show it to them.

 

Pièces à fournir si le véhicule provient d'un pays de l'Espace économique européen (EEE)

Doivent être fournis :

• l'ancien certificat d'immatriculation du véhicule,

• un certificat d'acquisition du véhicule (certificat fiscal) délivré par les services des impôts.

Il convient de fournir également, selon les cas :

• soit, si le véhicule est conforme à un type communautaire ayant fait l'objet d'une réception à titre isolé, le certificat de conformité européen (original ou duplicata) délivré par le constructeur ou par son représentant en France,

• soit, si le véhicule est conforme à un type national français ou si le certificat de conformité ne contient pas toutes les informations nécessaires, une attestation d'identification du véhicule délivrée par le constructeur ou son représentant en France ou par la DRIRE compétente,

• soit, pour les autres véhicules, un procès-verbal de réception à titre isolé établi par la DRIRE compétente .

If the clerk insists that he/she needs a French certifictae, ask to speak to a supervisor.

 

[Sunday Driver]

Jules

It sounds like your bike just need restricting to bring it down to the legal power limit for France.  Your local dealer should be able to do this and issue a certificat de bridage which you can then take to the DRIRE to obtain a single vehicle type approval certificate.  With this magic piece of paper, you can do to the prefecture to register..... 

Easier than riding around on an illegal bike....

[/holier than thou mode off....[;-)]

 

[Gail Smith]

Hi Sunday Driver

I thought I would update you on what is going on with the bike.  Mike is in the UK and went to see the bike but unfortunately it was not as he thought is was going to be! The camera does appear to lie...(I am being kind here).  Mike was terribly disappointed as obviously he had not booked return flights and he has no transport there.  He has managed now to borrow a Bandit from my Brother in Law and is contacting owners of other bikes available on ebay that he had bid on and is going to see a couple over the weekend.

As I said he is very disappointed but it is a lot of money to us and he doesnt want to make a mistake.

I am sure he will come back and let you know what is going on when he returns.

Gail xx

[Chancer]

Are you not obliged to buy what you have succesfully won at auction (E-bay or otherwise)?

Do you have a get out clause if it was not as described or just have to  rely on the fact that the owner will not pursue it but may leave bad feedback?

I once sold a racing car (road registered) on e-bay, the successfull bidder phoned and asked lots of questions but did not come to view until after he had won the auction, he then wanted to take it for a test drive before deciding whether he would part with his money.

It turned out OK as it was nearly new and as described but what if he simply didn't like the drive (it was motorcycle engined so had some idiosynchracys)?

I have been tempted to bid on some articles on E-Bay UK both large and small, often the sellers refuse to accept bids from overseas, I wonder if it is a case of once bitten twice shy?

I remember during the gazumping 80's a now ex-friend and his wife were househunting, when they saw a house that looked promising they would put an offer on it (to effectively reserve it) whilst continuing the search for something better, they tricked four vendors in this way for several weeks.

[Gail Smith]

I dont want to go into the ins and outs of why it was not what it seemed on here but to talk generally about buying on ebay,  you can not continue with the purchase by mutual agreement or of course you risk bad feedback.  To be fair he had the cash in his hand when he got there and it was not that he was tricking anyone into holding it in reserve.  He was a very serious buyer but there is no way he is handing over 5K for a bike that isnt up to scratch.  With all the bikes he was interested in he told the vendors that we were in france and what the difficulties were with registering it here.  We had to make checks with Honda UK to make sure the bike was a uk import etc.  They all knew that he had to come over to test ride it and see it before handing over the money.

We sold several bikes and cars and a motorhome for over 23k on ebay and have always been honest and truthful when selling and it has never let us down.  I would rather risk bad feedback than buy something I wasnt happy about.

When we sold them we always were happy to sell with the proviso that after the test drive/ride they might not like it and withdraw from the sale.  Ebay allow for that.

Gail xx