dave21478 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Is this likely to be a physical inspection of the car or an exercise in paperwork?I have a UK vehicle to register. The manufacturer has supplied a PARTIAL certificate of conformity. This letter states that the car is the same as the French version, Type ABCD and number E*xyz except the genre is CTTE instead of VP and it has 2 seats instead of 4. - It is a van variant of a normal 3-door car.Logically, the issue of a French carte gris would involve using the provided reception numbers in their computer to give the details of the french version, and change the seat number and genre. This is france though and logic does not always apply to paperwork. The po-faced harridan at the sous-prefecture was as useful as a hefty kick in the nads, so I went to the prefecture an hours further drive away, where they were a tad more helpfull, but still reckoned they couldnt do anything. They suggest a visit to DREAL and "passage au mines" which is the RTI as far as I can gather. Obviously, after dragging myself all around an industrial estate with very vague directions to this place, the DREAL doesn't open on a friday afternoon so I can do nothing until monday at the earliest.In an ideal world, they will bring up the details of the french version and using the letter from the manufacturer, just change the required details and issue an attestaion, however, I have a nasty suspicion they will want to do a full examination of the car - Are my fears unfounded? It sat the CT two weeks ago requires a contre-visit due to the wrong size of tyres fitted. Today has been mostly spent like this.....[IMG]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/dave21478/short/gonnabeawhilep1.gif[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 It would appear that your van version is not type approved for France so you need a single vehicle approval inspection (that's the RTI).The manufacturer's partial certificate says your unapproved van is mechanically the same as the approved car, so that saves you the long a trek up to Paris to get all the nasty tests done. As far as the DREAL is concerned, this is likely to be a paper exercise. Had it been the other way, ie van to car with extra seats added, they'd be crawling all over the seats, mountings and seat belts to make sure they meet the required safety standards.The prefecture can't just input the car e* number because it's all automatic and the carte grise would come out as a car. That's why you have to do a 'passage aux mines' to get a fresh type approval certificate which they'll then manually input to produce your van's carte grise with all the proper details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I see, thank you. Any ideas on a likely cost for this? I must be nearing double figures for vehicles I have previously imported and this is the first time things have not gone smoothly. Should be worth it in the end though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 The fee for the RTI is 87€. For that, you'll get a proces-verbal de titre isolé which is your new conformity certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Please let us know how you get on with this one Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Pffff....Went to the DREAL where I was given a huge batch of forms to fill in and told to return them with 3 certificates from a public weighbridge....front axle, rear axle and total weight with a full tank of fuel and nothing else in the car.This information is given in the tech specs the manufacturer gave me, but they need actual readings and certificates to prove them. My local weighbridge is an antique sliding balance affair where once you have it balanced you shove a strip of cardboard into a slot and pull a lever and it stamps 4 digits into the card - the weight in kilos. The lady was not sure but suspected this would not be acceptable so I need to find a more modern weighbridge. There is a quarry not too far away so I will see if they are willing to do this."will the car need inspected?""That depends.""depends on what?""It just depends." *Gallic shrug*"How long will this take once I submit the dossier?""That depends."Great.I forgot to ask about the price.Given distances to travel to this place, time taken and other commitments, this is fast turning into a hassle I can not be arsed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Just read through the forms and it is €87. Also, according to the form, once the dossier is completed and returned, they will make an appointment for the car to be inspected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 WHAT THE HELL?Second part of the form.....[IMG]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/dave21478/short/DSCF0015-2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/dave21478/short/DSCF0014-2.jpg[/IMG][8-)] [blink] [8-)]If I wasn't so pissed off with this form, it would be funny.Where is the tick-box for "manufacturer has removed rear seats and fitted a bit of plywood."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 DaveThat's the bodybuilder's certificat de carrossage that's used when a separate truck body is fitted to a base commercial vehicle. I don't know if it was just one of the documents in the 'pack' that they gave you, but it doesn't apply in your case.Here is the application which covers vans up to 3500kg:http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/RTI01-2_18032008_import_nonconforme.pdfAnnex 2 of the application is a form for providing a simplfied notice descriptive of the vehicle. As the manufacturer should have provided you with a full notice descriptive (commonly termed the 'barré rouge') when you got the partial attestation, there's no need to fill this in - just attach the barré rouge to the application.Page 1 lists the other documents you need to attach to the application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi,Yes, I have that form too. The chap had a look through what I have (letter of partial conformity and 2 copies of the notice descriptive, although these are in English and are a tad complicated to follow as they apply to several variants and engine versions) and told me to fill out both this and the rubbish I posted the pictures of along with something else which is just personal details etc - all to be done twice by the way, there are 2 copies of everything. - I need to track down a decent weighbridge that issues tickets though, my local quarry refused to do it.I will fill out as much as is possible without the help of a scientist and hand it in - they can sort the rest out themselves if it is required.Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Very interested to read this post as we are in the same position with a partial Cert de Conformite from VW France but our only problem is a missing Plaque de Constructeur !We too have to go to the DREAL and I'm hoping that as we have now had the plaque made up and fixed to the car that it will be a paper exercise. Surely we don't have to do the weighbridge execise ? The car is only 8 years old .I'm feeling very anti VW at the moment as I told them we didn't have the plaque ( something the Controle Technique noticed ) before we asked them for the C de C. Surely at that point they could have said ' you need to get one and this is the info to put on it ' and then we can give you the Cert but no, they took our 119 euros and after a 3 week wait we get a useless partial Cert saying it does not conform because it has no plaque !!! The local VW dealer said that VW didn't put plaques on vehicles destined for certain EU countries so we don't know if our car ever had one. When I rang VW France they said you can try and get one from VW UK. It really bugs me because they all use the same database and can check the car immediately from the chassis number . If VW Uk can issue one then why can't VW France ? Equally , what is the value of it if it something we can have made up ourselves ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Just in case anyone else is in the same boat.......We went to the DREAL yesterday, armed with our partial C of C and an invoice from the local VW garage for fitting the plaque , hoping that they might accept that but no, we have to wait up to 3 weeks for our file to be looked at, then we will be given an appointment when we have to take the car in to be inspected. It takes 90minutes to drive there each time. Moral of the story, make sure you have the correct plaque fitted before you leave the UK. We had no idea from anything we'd read that it was a legal requirement in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Good job you're thinking of giving up the Gites then Dave [:D][:D][:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Meh, I have done the usual and lost interest in this job. The car is currently sitting unused and I am concentrating on other things just now. Once I build up motivation again and once I bother to look for a weighbridge, I will give it another bash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfrog Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I have a 'partial certificat de conformité' because the car in question is RHD and these were never sold in France!I will have to go via 'les mines' - which costs. I also need a CT réussi to go with my dossier - I'm still working on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Remember this?My 306's gearbox is rapidly loosing more and more internal components, so a while back, I dug out the paperwork to get the van registered. Yes, I DO have to fill out the carrossage calculations - the chap was most insistant on this. I took the car to my local antique weighbridge and got the axle weights, which came within a couple of kilos of the specs given in the fiche technique I have. So with my silly wee stamped bits of cardboard I started doing the maths. Wheelbases, centre of gravity of the payload, overhangs, and some basic calculations eventally churned out some figures that looked reasonable and tallied with the fiche again, so I stapled it all together and dropped it off at DREAL. - Knowing what I know now, I would have just lifted the figures straight from the fiche and made up the weight stamps with some card and a set of numbered punches....maybe next time eh?Some weeks passed.Another few weeks passed.With the pug now urgently needing a new gearbox, I trudged back to the DREAL to find out whats what. (telephone enquiries for vehicle stuff are monday AM's only and the one time I tried, I gave up after being on hold for about 25 minutes). By lucky (!) co-incidence, I arrived making enquiries the afternoon after my appointment for inspection. Which I had missed. Some searching through the dossier turned up the reason why....I moved house a while back, and despite putting my new address on the demand and everything else in the dossier, they picked out the one and only bit of paper with my old address on it (certificate of partial conformity) and posted my appointment letter to that address instead. The lady was almost sincere with her apologies and said I would be contacted by phone with a new date.This morning, I got a call saying the vehicle should be presented for inspection early next month. She reckoned it will only take 20 minutes or so. I have a vision of some chap opening the door, counting the seats, checking the VIN number, closing the door and then fiddling with a computer for the remaining 19minutes, and charging me 90 sheets for the privelidge of a piece of paper telling everyone what was bloody obvious right from the start.The pisser is that the CT has now ticked past 6 months, so if I get this magical bit of paper, it will need re-sat before I can finish off at the prefecture. In that case, I might just wait until November, as the car will pass ten years old and the carte gris should drop to half price.Will keep you informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfrog Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 well I finally got my RHD car registered in France - the visit to "Les Mines" was nothing more than a visual check that everything was as in the spec. Yes, they do check all the manufacturers plates and the number stamped into the chassis (they're keen on those!)No rear foglight though - and although it's not obligatory for the CT it is in the spec... "so if originally it had a stick of rhubarb attached it would have to have one now?" was the question I was asked when I tried to find an original 1995 Niva rear foglight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Does it really needs to be an original, a foglight is a foglight isn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfrog Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 [quote user="AnOther"]Does it really needs to be an original, a foglight is a foglight isn't it ?[/quote]yes but they don't make them like that any more - however as all that was required was a photo of the rear lights working with and without the foglight on the rear bumper it didn't need to be permanently fixed, if you see what I mean ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 As expected, I turned up, the guy counted the number of seats, checked the VIN, and that was about it. He checked the glass was E-marked too, and told me that technically the odometer should have an indication of whether it counts in miles or kilometers (mine just has the digital display of the numbers). He said a sticker with "miles" written on it and stuck next to the odometer would be acceptable and I obviously promised I would do this.Total cost - just shy of €90. Total time spent there - about 7 minutes.The paperwork will seemingly be posted to me within a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Well done for your persistance and humour Dave.It certainly will help others like me who would consider other obscure vehicles but who might at first be discouraged by what seems like mountains to climb.Hows the restaurant going?Great idea of yours for the presumeably out of season pizza van, bien sur you will have more of the same obstacles to overcome but I reckon not long from now you will be saying "if there was ever one thing that I did right in this life it was that!"What strikes me as crazy is that the French should be far more capable of dealing with the registeration of a RHD van, converting to camping car or pizza van etc than immigrants like us who are still learning the language and finding our way but it seems they just dont.Everyone seems to either borrow loads of money and pay over the odds for a going concern and then wonder why they are not getting the same return as the sellers or buy a ready equipped van/franchise, have you any idea of the fortune that these people pay for a baraque à frîtes? Its absolutely ludicrous compared to what you will spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 The restaurant is going well, thanks. I dont have a lot of time just now, but will write up an account at the end of the season when it is a bit calmer.As for the pizza van, I have been thinking about it for a while and know a chap who runs one and ...well....lets just say he is not too poor. However, a quick look on LeBonCoin shows nothing under 6 thousand, and those in he 6 - 8 thousand bracket tend to be mid 80's rubbish based on Renault Masters etc, with the "conversion" consisting of a few lengths of BricoDepot kitchen worktop and a few other bits n bobs. Ten grand seems to be the price for something decent and likely to meet hygene norms, and that is just way beyond what I want to put into one. The conversion itself poses no problem...I actually used to do something along those lines for a living back in UK for a while - just need to get the regulations for registration clear before I start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Not suggesting it's the way forward for you but our local travelling fish-n-chip van is towed behind a UK regged 4x4 and sports the same UK plate. It has been that way for about 2-3 years. Clearly French registering the pair is too bothersome and expensive.Damn good fish-n-chips though [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just a very minor addition to this tale.....I met someone today and a quick chat reinforced my beliefs."What beliefs?" you ask.My belief that even the French administration dont really know what they are doing and just make it up as they go along.He came to measure up at a property where I was working and I noticed he has the same vehicle as me. Exactly the same. A van derived from the normal car version. A vehicle that he walked into a dealership and ordered, without complication, without hassle, with nothing to do with the DREAL and with no extra expense. So much for mine being a version never sold here.[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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