Getting Ifor Williams Carte Grise

[Mark_France]

Hi folks,

Does anyone have a 2011 based guide to the black art of registering a new Ifor Williams trailer in France?

I am going to ask Ifor UK to supply me with a French Spec GD85 dual axle model and a European Certificate of Conformity. Then once the trailer has arrived in France pulled by my French registered car (answers on how best to do this would be appreciated) I shall set about the devilish task in hand.

Plan A) Takes all the relevant documents to the Prefecture. At this point I'm going on a chancer and trying to avoid Monsieur DREAL and the 'ever so cheap' Ifor Williams COC. If this works great...

Plan B) Expecting that Plan A will fail. I wonder if the trailer can go via the DREAL and pass with minor problems. If I have the French spec model, surely it'll be okay but......... Any thoughts?

Plan C). Contact Ifor Williams France for an attestation d'identification at the lastest rip-off price - does anybody now latest price? If I can't get the French spec model what number of mods might I have to make? Here are some I have thought of - fog lights (I'm hoping they are dual working and that would solve that), reflectors (hopefully they will be the same), Weight marked on a plate (maybe I'll have to get the trailer weighed somewhere and some new PTAC plate made?) , the famous cyclist bars (bought and retro fitted from Ifor Williams or made up to appear to be the same - some people have said that some French sold IW trailers don't have these fitted either. This is the most confusing as I havn't found an internet image that confirms either way and the Ifor Williams French site has UK trailer images!

Plan D) drop the idea - I can't afford the French price for the same thing. As it is I'm on a extended budget buying it from the UK where it is already not exactly cheap!

I have read lots and lots of the old posts and stuff on other forums but the info is sometimes dated and not 100% sure (can anything be so in France). So I have tried to find the details without asking a question already asked.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Mark

[Sunday Driver]

"I am going to ask Ifor UK to supply me with a French Spec GD85 dual axle model and a European Certificate of Conformity. Then once the trailer has arrived in France pulled by my French registered car (answers on how best to do this would be appreciated) I shall set about the devilish task in hand."

Ifor Williams market their products through a network of distributors and Ifor Williams France will have commercial agreements in place with the French distributors giving them sole rights to sell IW products in France.  On that basis, I wonder whether Ifor UK would be prepared to directly supply an individual like you with a French spec trailer and undercut their French partners by only charging you the equivalent UK price.  More likely, they will just refer you to Ifor France for details of your local concessionnaire.

On that basis, I suspect you will end up with two choices:

Buy a French spec trailer from a French concessionnaire complete with French type approval certificate (European certificates of conformity do not exist for trailers) allowing you to immediately obtain a carte grise.

Buy a cheaper UK spec trailer from a UK Ifor dealer and put it through a DREAL inspection to obtain the necessary French type approval certificate.

The latter option will incur additional costs, ie travel to and from the UK to collect the trailer, temporary WW carte grise and plate, Ifor France homologation pack and DREAL inspection fee so you'd need to do the sums to determine the benefit.

 

[Mark_France]

Thanks for the reply. I can only try asking Ifor Williams (another person on another forum has reported that they had no problem doing this) but if IW UK say no then I'll take the route via the DREAL. I actually think under European free trade agreements I.W can't refuse an order like this as that's what car companies tried a few years back (when Sterling was high) and these companies were fined for blocking individuals. In any case I won't try it on if they won't do it.

I would be okay paying a little more for the same product but the differences are not justifiable and the French concessionaires are just creaming too much off the customers - after all Sterling is weak, VAT is higher in the UK and the UK concessionaires have a margin built into their prices, so what's the French excuse for much higher prices?

I have to bring back a lot from the UK so the extra costs and hassle of getting it registered will still make it well worth the effort.

I wasn't aware that trailers didn't have a pan-European C.O.C so that clears up another point and I'll have to give Ifor Williams France 100€ for a sheet of paper and 30 minutes of their time.

Regards, Mark

[AnOther]

[quote user="Mark_France"]I actually think under European free trade agreements I.W can't refuse an order like this[/quote]I can never resist a wry smile when I see comments like this.

iFor Williams are a private company who are under no obligation to take orders or sell anything to anybody, regardless of where they are from or what they think their rights might be under EU trade agreements.

Would you complain if you walked into say PC World in UK and they wouldn't sell you that laptop you'd taken a shine to but with a French version of Windows and a AZERTY keyboard, or Darty in France and in English, no of course you wouldn't but it's exactly the same situation.

I think the reason there are no pan-European C of C's for trailers is that it's a niche market where every country has different regulations. In UK for instance, as we all know, there is no requirement for trailers to be registered in their own right so what use or need have you for one at all ? 

 

[Mark_France]

wry/rī/Adjective

1. Using or expressing dry, esp. mocking, humor.

2. (of a person's face or features) Twisted into an expression of disgust, disappointment, or annoyance.

So which one could you not resist. The mocking humour or an expression of disgust, annoyance?

[Anton Redman]

The reaction of Ifor Williams when asked for a certificate of conformity for France has changed from :

Free, Nominal Charge, Large Charge to Refusal.

Is it possible they are being out under pressure by the French agent ?

[Mark_France]

It can be the only reason. When did the refusal part arrive? I'm waiting to speak to someone at Ifor Williams this week and I'll report back my findings.

[Mark_France]

Further info on getting my Ifor Williams trailer.

1 .Three different French assurers have confirmed they would insure the trailer on carte grise provisoire or definitive (of course) but NOT on the trailer VIN only!

2. The cheapest insurer was 48 euros/year - MAAF for a trailer which I gave as 3000 euros value / 2 axle PTAC 2700kg model. Contents not covered but you kind of expect that with a trailer (even one with a hardtop)

3. The ONLY legal way to get the trailer back from the UK with a French registered car for the over 500kg PTAC model trailers is with a carte grise (provisoire or definitve)

4. The carte grise provioise can be obtained with only an invoice (showing VAT paid, model, VIN etc) plus some other details.

5. The carte grise provisoire is valid for 30 days. It costs 45 euros/each time. It can be renewed later if you have a delay between the expiry of the first one - this is useful/necessary due to the Ifor Williams delay in issuing paperwork for the carte grise definitive. You'll need a new temp plate with each carte grise provisoire

6. The carte grise definitve is 75 euros (in my department 71 but will vary with dept)

Next: The conformity issue

1. It seems that Ifor Williams will drag their feet on supplying paperwork for newly bought trailers. I think that it may even be that they don't even provide anything for trailers until said trailers are 6 months old. I can only confirm this for sure when I have my trailer and try them.

2. I'm not sure what Ifor Williams will supply at the point of sale. If they supplied some European conformity (although this appears not to be the case for trailers which are not treated like cars) then I would avoid the DREAL altogether and could get my carte grise definitve.

3. However it seems 99.99% sure that I'll receive nothing from Ifor Williams UK at the point of sale - even if I ask in advance

4. So this will mean a wait on Ifor Williams and whatever policy/game they decide to play.

5. When I have paid the ransom to Ifor Williams France (their rate seems to change and I can't confirm this but it is between 100 and 300 euros) I will almost certainly only received an 'attestation de homologation' which seems to be marked 'partially confirms' even if the trailer is 100% compliant (this is what many people report). Said attestation will take about 6 weeks to obtain from IW but may take longer.

6. This paperwork will not be enough to just pass directly to La Prefecture but will mean a trip to the DREAL. Until I try this for myself I can't confirm or say how it will go. It should be straight forward for models that are currently on sale in France. The cost of this visit is 84 euros.

Now many of you have had different experiences of the DREAL and Ifor Williams attitude to supplying the paperwork so I'll remain open to how it may go. I shall report back at times as I pass each hurdle of this process. One thing is sure and that is that this represents a lot of nonsense for what is after all just some metal and wheels. The combination of France+Ifor Williams is a real pain in the A**. But I will overcome all the hurdles and I will make a considerable saving when all is completed. And I will have the knowledge of knowing I don't rely on the advice of a certain smug forum member who prefers making snide remarks rather than just giving open advice.

[Mark_France]

I forgot to add that for the very brave amongst you - you could try doing a titre isolé (and avoid the famous Ifor Williams paperwork) where you get all the conformity paperwork yourself for the individual parts of the trailer that the DREAL would inspect. I think though after reading the paperwork that you need to be up for a real challenge if you try this route

This is a:

Fiche de constitution d’un dossier de

Réception à Titre Isolé de véhicule

en application du Code de la Route

Remorques neuves

dont le PTC* est supérieur à 500 kg et inférieur ou égal à 3 500 kg

* PTC = poids total en charge

[Cheerfull Charlie]

Mark, bit of a late post but I am planning on buying the same trailer as you in the UK.  If you have a CoC from Ifor Williams does this negate the need for a DREAL inspection?

[AnOther]

When you buy a trailer from IFW in UK, or anyone for that matter, you will not get a C of C for the very simple reason that because trailer registration is not required in UK there is no need for one and such a document does not exist. IFW will have a document saying that their products comply with UK construction and use regulations but that is a different thing altogether.

If you read this thread again carefully I think you'll find answers to any questions you may have.

[Mark_France]

Hi Charlie

I'm at this stage with my trailer:

Ordered trailer GD85 dual axle with options.

Got receipt from UK dealer to get the carte grise provisoire and plate plus assurance for my trip to the UK to get trailer

Collected trailer November 2011 and drove back with lots of goodies bought at better UK prices.

Trailer now off road on my garage in France

Applied to IW UK (stage 1) with the relevant details they asked for (did this 5th December)

Received IW reply mid January 2012 asking for payment (200€ cheque) for stage 2

Am awaiting the relevant paperwork (this is not a COC but rather a long list of what the sizes/spec of the composants that went into the trailer),

Will post again when I've received paperwork from IW and visit the French inspection.

Hope this helps?

Regards, Mark

[sid]

This thread started in July last year. I couldn't wait that long just to buy a trailer and have to jump through all these hoops.

I would walk into any dealer's place over here and be driving off with said trailer in half an hour (or less). What's so special about Ifor Williams that other makers can't supply?

[Mark_France]

It's just a question of price and then you decide. Ifor Williams make decent trailers and can provide the paperwork for getting a UK (cheaper priced) trailer registered in 'admin land' ... Money being no object then go ahead choose your model at whatever French dealer then good luck if you think that anything is done in half an hour in France.

[sid]

Money being no object? Well, not really, but time is of the essence. If you've managed for 6 months perhaps you don't need one?

I have a French trailer. [Www]

[Mark_France]

I already had a trailer bought in France. It was, like many French trailers, of poorer quality than IW and other such better marques. French dealers: approached 3 of them for a quote. One failed to reply and the other two took 3-4 weeks and then quoted full price that was 1,800 euros more than the UK price. The problem occurs when you need a +750kg PTAC trailer in France.

Not sure having never met how you think you know what I need or don't need?

[powerdesal]

Just a small query, you got the provisional carte gris and presumably WW plates which you used when towing the trailer in UK. You may or may not be aware that the use of WW plates is illegal outside of mainland France.

[sid]

[quote user="Mark_France"]I already had a trailer bought in France. It was, like many French trailers, of poorer quality than IW and other such better marques. French dealers: approached 3 of them for a quote. One failed to reply and the other two took 3-4 weeks and then quoted full price that was 1,800 euros more than the UK price. The problem occurs when you need a +750kg PTAC trailer in France. Not sure having never met how you think you know what I need or don't need?[/quote]

Re-read my reply, I never said that I know what you needed! However, YOU were telling us what you wanted, and what a convoluted method you proposed, and I merely pointed out the simplest route. I fully understand why people buy goods from UK based on price, but sometimes the hassle involved makes it too much trouble, and product guarantees become hopelessly impossible or impractical to take up.

Anyway, it looks as though you've just about made it now, and got away with your temporary registration plate, so good luck with it.

 

[bella1982]

Sorry to drag up an old post.

I registered with the intention of sending a pm to Mark_France but couldn't find how to do so.

I wondered how you got on in the end with registering your ifor and what the end cost was.

Did you try going to the DREAL first without the partial certificate from ifor?

Any info would be great.

Many thanks

bella1982

[Mark_France]

Hi there:

Yes I did finally get the trailer registered.

I had the paperwork from Ifor Williams that cost me €200 (the price may have changed since December 2011). I then made an appointment with the DREAL (normally one in a prefecture or sous-prefecture). They take a copy of my paperwork and they then send you a time and date. The test was made and he checked sizes, details etc. He told me that I needed to have the trailer weighed (as he said with options that the weight stated might be incorrect. I got this done at the local weighbridge and that cost €3. He also stated that I needed a 'pare-cycliste' for one of the sides. One side has a spare wheel fitted. Although Ifor Williams actually sell the same trailer in France without the famous 'pare-cycliste' I took one off my old trailer and sent him some digital images. With this he was happy and then sent me the pass and the documents needed to register it. The DREAL test was about €80 and the carte grise about €50 (note they keep the original invoice receipt)

To be honest it wasn't a difficult thing to get done but frankly a bit unnecessary for a what is simply a trailer. That is France though and of course it generates more money for the state.

Another point for all those who have the relevant category to tow heavier trailer and loads. Watch out if you now have a French licence as the validity of these categories is reduced and you need to renew them via a medical exam - this was another €30 and in my case lasts 5 years - for older persons these categories need renewed much more frequently.#

Good luck to you all......

(pare-cycliste = bar that 'may' prevent cyclists getting swept under the trailer)