Employing a short term worker

[Ianhaycox]

I have a renovation project for two gites starting this winter. The bulk of the masonery, roofs, fosse, etc. work is being done by a French enterprise.

I am going to do most of the internal works and would like to employ a 'general labourer' for 3 to 6 months via our SARL. The person I have in mind is a French resident English speaker. He has a CDS but not sure what else.

I would appreciate any advice on employing someone short time, how to pay his taxes etc.

Thanks,


Ian http://www.brittany-holiday-gites.com

[Will]

If this person is not a registered artisan then it sounds as if you may need to employ him on a short term (6 month?) contract. You don't pay tax, the employee has to make his own tax return, but you will be responsible for employer's social security payments which are very complicated and quite expensive (if my memory is correct something like 40% again on top of the salary, which for this type of work would probably be the minimum wage - SMIC - 7.61 per hour). If you have an SARL then you will already use the services of an accountant, who will be the best person to sort out the formalities, he will probably have the necessary computer programs etc.

I don't think the cheque d'emploi system, which would be much simpler, is suitable for this type of work.

I'm basing this reply on our past experiences (being paid rather than paying somebody else, and in a very different line of French business) so somebody with more direct experience of employment in the French building trades may be able to suggest something better.

Will (50)
Forum moderator

[Ianhaycox]

I'm trying to encourage my future worker to register as an Artisan but, judging by the excellent advice in these forums, I think it may take quite a long time.

I will be asking my accountant but it's still August and they are all on holiday. Before the meeting I was hoping to go armed with a basic idea of the options and potential costs.

Thanks for the help and if anyone else has any additional info to add it would be much appreciated.

Ian http://www.brittany-holiday-gites.com/

[Val_2]

What you must do is get your accountants to draw up a proper contract of employment for a set period stating the start and finish date or else you could be in trouble with the authorities and the 'prud hommes' if any misunderstanding arises. Cheque Emploi is not usually viable in the building trade for a person doing a full time job (8hrs per day etc) and presents horrible complications with your accounts. The standard 35 hour week is normal, we do 39 and for those extra four hours we have to pay our workers 25% extra on EVERY single social charge and pay as well as the already hefty government charges on the 35 hours - so beware of this trap. If you have more than 10 employees you are exempt from this and it is still only 10% extra per hour.

Your man may well have to have a medical as dictated by URSSAF,they will inform you when you have contacted them re him starting with you.

[Miki]

[quote]What you must do is get your accountants to draw up a proper contract of employment for a set period stating the start and finish date or else you could be in trouble with the authorities and the 'pru...[/quote]

Val,

I really do not think that anything to do with the building trade is allowed on cheque d'emploi.

It is and as far back as I can remember, a domestic "employment" with a bit of childminding, caring etc plus a spot of small gardening thrown in and not a lot more, to be honest.

Miki

[Val_2]

Hi Miki, nice to be back even if the print is a bit smaller now - have put my larger eyeballs in!

This seems to be a bit of a grey area in as much as the last time about 18months ago when were advertising for another labourer, we had several people,all the wrong side of 50 apply and all were cheque d'emploi and it seemed quite normal to them although they didn't want to work full time - perhaps 25 hrs per week which is no good to anyone in building. Therein lies the difference I suppose between this system and a full time contract. In the event, I did query the system with our accountant who told us not to contemplate cheque d'emploi as it causes all sorts of paperwork problems with the authorities regarding tax and charge payments. After all the aggro we have had with employees over the years here, I would never ever contemplate taking anyone on now without a proper legal contract and straightforward charges,its too stressful.

PS. Our house looks like a bring and buy sale with all the stuff for the rentrée next week, yours the same?

[Miki]

[quote]Hi Miki, nice to be back even if the print is a bit smaller now - have put my larger eyeballs in! This seems to be a bit of a grey area in as much as the last time about 18months ago when were advert...[/quote]

We haven't even gone out to the shops to get her stuff yet !

She is working full time to get some money for herself before the new start of the school year, when she knows she will no have to get serious with learning (not as though gaining the Bac isn't of course!) She has to go abroad for part of her first year to work and study one of her 3 languages, in her case probably to Spain, as her French and English are pretty good, obviously, and she wants extra dosh to take (Yeh, if she can hold on to it that long !), apart from the money she will need from us.

We are hoping to sort out her new student health cover soon, have you done that yet? It seems to be the right thing to do, or is it?

Agree about cheque d'emploi, it is a very grey area and so I guess the sensible thing is to avoid using it, unless you are certain of its legality in the circumstances.

Miki

[Ianhaycox]

Spoke to the accountant today and was told that I can employ a worker through

my SARL on a short term contract, but only if the work is exceptional, i.e. not

regular work, my renovation project would be classed as an exception. Apparently

the restriction is something to do with the way the company is set up. The total

cost of employing someone 3 days a week (8 hour days) at the minimum wage of 7.61€

per hour is 1,117€ per month.

That works out as approx 785€ gross for wages (the worker pays any tax

due in their end-of-year return) and then 332€ in social charges which my

company also has to pay. Approx 40%.

I think I'm going to have to encourage him to register as society and then

just pay any factures presented to me. My accountant says it is much much simpler,

except he must not setup a society just for this job. The administration will

not allow it. I suspect this is to prevent tax avoidance like IR35

in the UK.

[Peter]

There is the equivalent to the cheque'd emploi service for temporary building workers. Like everthing concerning employment it is complicated and expensive. It is called Titre Emploi Service; my bank manager told me about it. You have to register at the Urssaf (or whatever it is called) and then they send all the details. Registering was the easy bit! Anyway it is nice to feel that one is the right side of the law in case of accident etc. And you employee is getting all their contributions paid.

All the best

Pete

[Moorejw]

The Titre d'Emploi Service has been set up to encourage small businesses to employ people, and it makes it easier from the payments and records point of view. I received a mailshot from URSSAF about it with my last demand for cotisations. I don't want to employ anybody else, but if I did this looks like an improvement on the previous process.