Annie Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Having read some of the more recent posts "buying with confidence" clearly there is many that say you can buy your dream property in France without the need of a UK based French lawyerMy understanding of the notaire is that they employed by the government to make sure that their monies which are due are paid! There loyalty to you the purchaser maybe pleasant but not necessarily in the best interest to you. Equally all the "books" say dont just rely on the Notaire!We are purchasing a property in france and have appointed UK legals who know "French Law" however their service is abysmal, and we are now just about to throw in the towl with them. But and this is a big but.... how can we not have UK based french lawyers, who will independantly represent us, translate what we are signing, make sure we have all the correct planning permisions and confirm property boundaries of our Agriculturaral registered Haras(stud). So if someone does know by personal experience a UK based French lawyer that works for you, the paying client then we would like to hear from you. Or a Notaire we can appoint to represent us, if that is appropriate, as I am not sure there is a notaire representing each side of the purchase.Equally the Notaire appointed by our Vendor, seams no more efficient than our UK lawyers.We are desperate and had planned to complete by the end of July and we cannot get our fingers on the Comprimis. On top of that we are homeless as of next Friday, 2 people, 2 dogs, 5 horses and 10 guinea pigs. Thank goodness no children as that would be just too much![8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 You seem to have found out many of the facts about the French system so far [:)]1. The notaire overseeing the transaction acts for the state rather than either buyer or seller, so being impartial represents neither or both interests, depending on which way you look at it.2. Not all of the so-called UK-based experts are a lot of use. Many of them wrote the books and website articles and fact sheets, so the books etc may be a little biased in recommending that people use them.Did you buy through an agent? If so, you pay the agent's fees (although in a couple of areas it seems the seller pays) so the agent should be working for you, doing translations, sending you the compromis etc. In fact you really have to get your fingers on the compromis, as until you and the sellers have all signed it, nothing can happen, however efficient the notaire. As the norm is at least eight to 12 weeks between signing the compromis and signing the final acte, in order to carry out the various formalities, this rings alarm bells.There is nothing legally to prevent you from appointing a second notaire yourself, and if you are unhappy with the notaire already handling the sale this might seem a good idea, particularly as the fees will be shared. However, if you want a quick sale, having a second notaire involved is more likely to slow things down.There are good UK lawyers specialising in French house sales, here's hoping somebody can recommend one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Notaire's are much more than that. If you want to know what a notaire's job really is have a look at this website. I have put the link to the English version.NotairesThis site is packed with useful information on purchasing and inheritance. You do need a notaire - have you not appointed one yet? That may be at the root of your delays and the reason why you can't get anything done. It's easiest to use the same one as the vendor.What are your 'UK legals' actually supposed to be doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 For what it is worth I prefer the non-adversarial role of the Notaire to the us and them / must show I am earning my salt attitude that is becoming prevalent in the UK. They expect you to have looked at the house and understand exactly what you are buying but they do in my experience point out the pitfalls. Our vendors had purchased without having the boundary bournes checked. I said I was happy to do the same thing as I had checked the plan and it could not be more than a metre out. The notaire made sure both I and Isobel understood the asbestos survey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 WillThe property is a private sale, albeit we were referred to the property via an UK based agency, this is due to the fact we where seeking equestrian type properties. We are therefore paying no agent fees, there is no French agent involved. Probably downside number 1.I agree, adding another notaire, could be a recipie for slow boat to china. We are taking steps to find some contact in France that we met when we where house hunting, and I feel possibly with their french translation skills, we can remove the legal people here in the UK and manage the purchase with them as our props (of course they will want paying). We have just had the nightmare of selling our house here in the UK with legals that asked so many questions, I think now I will have enough knowledge of questions to ask the notaire to check that the property we are buying does have all the necessary planning consents for it various outbuildings etc. Do you think this step would be unwise? I feel we might be in better control doing it this way..[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 CassisThank you for the Web Site, just reading it is giving me more confidence to ditch the professionals here and just get on and go direct with the sellers Notaire.Your question what are you UK legals doing.... Translating and making sure we are not signing something that we do not understand. Supposedly checking everything stacks up with what is being bought and what is on the paper... But then again, does anyone really understand the jargon legal beagles put into their documents. Just needs to be in plain French to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Annie"I think now I will have enough knowledge of questions to ask the notaire to check that the property we are buying does have all the necessary planning consents for it various outbuildings etc."That's just the sort of thing that notaires are supposed to check, as well as making sure that the sellers' title is in order, the buyers have paid the money and fees etc. If the sale is dependent on getting permission in principle (known as a CU, or certificat d'urbanisme)to convert outbuildings or similar, then this should be written into the compromis as clauses suspensives. Notaires don't, as a rule, do searches into future plans that may affect the property - that's your responsibility. Neither will they necessarily be pro-active in offering advice on the best way to buy to avoid inheritance difficulties or similar (although many are happy to point these things out). However notaires are duty bound to answer specific questions, so your proposal is very wise indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 [quote user="Annie"]But then again, does anyone really understand the jargon legal beagles put into their documents. Just needs to be in plain French to me![/quote]I know what you mean. Best of luck with your purchase. By the way, regarding any plans for development and expansion near where you are buying - the Mairie should be able to tell you if any adjoining land is open to development if that is important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewPM Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I have on retention an English speaking lawyer and an English speaking notaire, if these would be of benefit to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Mr Brown's post just reminded me - the website I quoted earlier can tell you all the English speaking notaires registered in the area you are moving to if you go to this page Find an English Speaking Notaireand enter your address details and put 'English' in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 There is one 'English speaking' notaire on there that we used, that couldn't or wouldn't and was as miserable as sin to boot [:@]We didn't know he advertised as such when we used him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Given Viv's experience, best to ring the notaire and try to speak to him before taking him on! Name and shame, Viv - report the charlatan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 To you all, Much appreciated your input and advice, from this I have found confidence and faxed direct to the appointed Notaire ... this is a summary of what followed, just to show if you want to get a job done, do it yourself.26th June - AM - faxed to Notaire, translated from english into probably very bad gramatical french, requesting compromis. Emailed a contact we met in France who offers assistance with Translation.27th June - AM received compromis from notaire, sacked UK solicitors, appointed a new one that has been recommended, just to review the compromis and do our Wills, emailed Notaire, requested appointment to sign compromis (monday 3rd July), this has been confirmed back. Requested to the Vendors and had confirmation, to meet with them on the morning of the 3rd July, to go through plans and review boundaries, on speaking with vendors over phone with very bad french, confirmed appointment. Emailed notaire requesting copy of Asbestos Report, Lead and Termite Reports and Plans of property - still waiting, but I am hopeful, Confirmed french assistants to spend day with us to translate for clarifications.I have acheived today what my original UK Based French expert solicitors should of organised over the past 5 weeks. So we are far more optimistic. A big Thank you ...........Anne [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Great news - hope the rest goes as smoothly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Good news ! how better you must be feeling .......I hope like mine the Notaire finds the work he has done for you was not as complicated and time consuming as he expected and the costs were not as much as envisaged and you get a fat cheque back from him.....I got over 700 euros......selling a house in the UK to a first time buyer was on a fixed fee set by my solicitor .....the work was probably done by a clerk....I had to chase them to get it done and not a penney back ! .....needless to say I prefer the way the French go about it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentleyboy Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Annie,I am new on this forum and this is my first posting. Who is the new solicitor that you are using? My wife and I are (hopefully) going to be buying in Brittany soon and were contemplating using Penningtons (in London) to provide us with legal advice. There is another outfit based in Nottingham who we are also considering. I would be most grateful If you would tell us the name of the solicitor who was recommended to you.ThanksAndyp.s. For Anton Redman- Are you the same Anton Redman who used to work at BBC Woodlands office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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