Alcazar Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 OK, so the UK recently went European, and adopted brown for live, blue for neutral for house wiring.Why is it then, that major outlets in France, still carry RED, Brown, BLACK, PURPLE, ORANGE, even WHITE etc for live?I know the "strange" colours tend to be used for two-way lighting circuits, etc, and even for "live from switch to light" type identification, but what do the regs say about the use of RED for live? Or BLACK?Since I'm doing a fair bit next time I'm there, I DON'T want to be in a position that I use RED because it's available, then get told it ought to have been brown[:@] (anyway, red and blue look SO nice in the fusebox[;)][<:o)] )On another note, there seems to be no reason NOT to buy cables for conduit, (singles), from Screwfix now, especially not at £7 per 100m for 1.5 sq mm, and £9 per 100m for 2.5 sq mm?And on yet another note, UK suppliers only seem to be able to offer grey and black in addition to brown, blue green/yellow, and apparently, the regs state that these are only for THREE PHASE supply?Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 My understanding is that in France Blue in neutral,Green/Yellow is earth and any other colour (i.e. anything except Blue andgreen/yellow) is live.That is certainly what I’ve done and I find very useful whene.g. wiring “landing light” type circuits where there are two cables that canbe live.Others please correct me if thing have changed or I am justwrong (as I am not a professional).Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 That's what I thought, Ian, and what I intend doing...........unless someone shows me regs that say I mustn't.Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilec Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Yes, in case you hadn't noticed, France is not actually a part of Europe.To be fair, I bought a new convector heater last November, and it did come with the new unified colours, so perhaps they are just lagging a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 [quote user="Brilec"]Yes, in case you hadn't noticed, France is not actually a part of Europe.To be fair, I bought a new convector heater last November, and it did come with the new unified colours, so perhaps they are just lagging a bit.[/quote]Except that I KNOW that with my luck, the first person to get told his new installation is illegal and must be rewired with brown instead of red, will be..............you guessed it[:'(]Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Correct - there are no rules as to the colour(s) you MUST use for live just the colours you must not. This would not be so much of a prob if the French electricians would just be consistent within the same house - as a friend is finding whilst trying to track down an "issue".Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 Oh yes, been there, still doing that.My wife refuses to touch anything connected to the sockets near the sink, as she says she gets a shock. We would appear to have 70V between NEUTRAL and EARTH, but the machines, (washer, dishwasher, tumble drier) work OK. Since I CAN'T feel it, I do all the washing etc, until I can get it sorted.Oh, and just to be safe, I disconnect before loading/unloading, and only touch plastic on/off switches when connected..........just in case that 70V suddenly becomes 230V[^o)]Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote user="Alcazar"]Oh yes, been there, still doing that.My wife refuses to touch anything connected to the sockets near thesink, as she says she gets a shock. We would appear to have 70V betweenNEUTRAL and EARTH, but the machines, (washer, dishwasher, tumble drier)work OK. Since I CAN'T feel it, I do all the washing etc, until I canget it sorted.Oh, and just to be safe, I disconnect before loading/unloading, andonly touch plastic on/off switches when connected..........just in casethat 70V suddenly becomes 230V[^o)]Alcazar[/quote]Interesting - we found something similar in a some old sockets I wasreplacing a couple of years ago - about 70-80 volts between neutral andearth (I was only checking because the orginal wiring had both the liveand the neutral in a rather unattractive shade of grey, so I had noidea what was what). The sockets seemed to be fine in terms of therebeing 230V between live and neutral, but I couldn't (haven't) figuredout what was going on. I ended up tracing the earth all the way back toa pipe, unscrewed it, polished the pipe a bit with some sandpaper, andthis seemed to cure, but what was actually going on, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejay Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 AlcazarRe screwfix cableAnother little UK/ French oddity. All the UK single (conduit) cable I have used (and I have used a lot of it recently) has multistrand copper conductors, the French reel of 1.5 mm cable I have in front of me has a single strand conductor. Don't know if it matters though.bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 France does not use PME like the UK where the neutral and earth are connected togther somewher usually at the transformer.My friendly electrician told me that there is no real colour code for the live wire although each electrician developes his/her own system. They use one colour for switched things like lights, say red to the switch then purple from the switch to the lamp bulb holder, a different colour between switches for stairs where there are two switches. Another colour for things like dishwashers and washing machines etc. I must admit when you look inside my consumer unit there appears to be just about every colour you could think of but a closer look does indicate some sort of system is involed, all I have to do is work it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote user="bejay"]AlcazarRe screwfix cableAnother little UK/ French oddity. All the UK single (conduit) cable I have used (and I have used a lot of it recently) has multistrand copper conductors, the French reel of 1.5 mm cable I have in front of me has a single strand conductor. Don't know if it matters though.bj[/quote]Thanks, I'll check that out, I'm unsure as to the type of conductor in the Screwfix cable, but they have a helpline that will tell me tomorrow. I'm not in a hurry anyway, we aren't back there officially until end of May[:(]Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote user="jond"]Interesting - we found something similar in a some old sockets I was replacing a couple of years ago - about 70-80 volts between neutral and earth (I was only checking because the orginal wiring had both the live and the neutral in a rather unattractive shade of grey, so I had no idea what was what). The sockets seemed to be fine in terms of there being 230V between live and neutral, but I couldn't (haven't) figured out what was going on. I ended up tracing the earth all the way back to a pipe, unscrewed it, polished the pipe a bit with some sandpaper, and this seemed to cure, but what was actually going on, I have no idea.[/quote]Hmmm, very odd, isn't it? AFAIK, there is NO earth connected at the sockets, there's a cable, and it goes into the nearest junction box, where the situation is the same, but I can't trace it any further. I have installed a proper earth but it's only connected to the newer parts of the installation so far, there was no earth wire arriving at the distribution box for me to connect, except the one I, myself, put in to the actual earthing rod.It's on my list of "things to do", right after finish the first shower room, and make a decent start on installing electrics to the barn extension.[:'(] Unfortunately, time always seems to be agianst me, and wife's decision to go elsewhere at Easter this year, (it's our 30th wedding anniversary), hasn't helped.Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 [quote user="Alcazar"][quote user="jond"]Interesting - wefound something similar in a some old sockets I was replacing a coupleof years ago - about 70-80 volts between neutral and earth (I was onlychecking because the orginal wiring had both the live and the neutralin a rather unattractive shade of grey, so I had no idea what waswhat). The sockets seemed to be fine in terms of there being 230Vbetween live and neutral, but I couldn't (haven't) figured out what wasgoing on. I ended up tracing the earth all the way back to a pipe,unscrewed it, polished the pipe a bit with some sandpaper, and thisseemed to cure, but what was actually going on, I have no idea.[/quote]Hmmm, very odd, isn't it? AFAIK, there is NO earth connected at thesockets, there's a cable, and it goes into the nearest junction box,where the situation is the same, but I can't trace it any further. Ihave installed a proper earth but it's only connected to the newerparts of the installation so far, there was no earth wire arriving atthe distribution box for me to connect, except the one I,myself, put in to the actual earthing rod.It's on my list of "things to do", right after finish the firstshower room, and make a decent start on installing electrics to thebarn extension.[:'(] Unfortunately, time always seems to be agianst me,and wife's decision to go elsewhere at Easter this year, (it's our 30thwedding anniversary), hasn't helped.Jeff[/quote]Oh the provision of earths in sockets appears to be totally random[:S]. There probably is a logic to it all, but it's beyond me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 When the man from CONSUEL tested our wiring last year the thing was most concerned about was earth. Checked from box to spike outside then almost every socket in our living space - all 1 room of it. Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyn_Paul Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Is it my imagination or is the outer insulation on the rolls of flexible cable here in France a damn-sight thicker - and therefore less flexible - than its equivalent back in the UK ?I'm not talking about the 3 x single strand stuff which does duty in place of the individual single cables in a gaine, but the 5 or 10 m rolls of stuff you would buy to rewire - say - an appliance, or make up an extension cable.p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 Not found it so. The stuff I've bought would appear to be equally flexible and the same thickness, but then, I haven't bought any flexible stuff for a couple of years.Alcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 UK four gang extension cable normally protected by 13 am fuse 9 mm exterior dimention, French switched 6 gang extention protected by 16 amp disjointer 7 mm. First two items which fell to hand it tool shed, both were from DIY shed but not the bargain bins. Looks like you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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