Asbestos - maybe

[tracteurtom]

I've found under a hedge on our property what looks like an asbestos pipe.  It measures over 2 m in length and around 200mm diametre.  I could simply push it back under the hedge but would prefer for it to be removed and disposed of.  Can anyone advise on how I may achieve this?  I dont want to put it in my car for obvious reasons,  but I could trailer it to the decheterie, would they accept it?  What would happen if I spoke to the Mairie about it - an imposition of head to toe white suited "experts" ending in a hugh bill maybe???

Any advice (apart from the safety dont touch blah blah stuff) would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks

[fulcrum]

I have had to dispose of cement bonded amiante (ASBESTOS) a few times. Wrap it in Plastic sacks and tape it up. Then take it to your decheterie. They normally tell you to put it in the "tout venants" bit.

I guess you can ask your mairie just to be sure.

[Cassis]

Asbestos pipes, roofing etc. are classed as "Déchets d’amiante liée" and are not dangerous in themselves as long as they are not decomposing (flaking, giving off dust etc.).  It seems from reading this site:

http://www.environnement.ccip.fr/dechets/fiches/dechets-amiante-ciment.htm

that you can dispose of them at certain déchèteries "Class2", though I was nodding off a bit and may have lost the thread (as well as the will to live) by the time I got that far.

[Chancer]

My dechetterie wont accept amient, another one about 25km away does but you have to reside (and hence contribute with taxes foncieres) in the commune, I had to get a pass from my mairie for my own dechetterie.

I had a full transit van load to get rid of, the advice from my mairie was dig a hole and bury it, and from my dechetterie -dump it in a country lane. Actually several of the walking trails we use have now got firmer surfaces thanks to amient flytipping.

I ended up ferrying it across the channel and taking it to my local dump in Sussex where they have a special container and accept it (because they have to) from the public.

[oglefakes]

Asbestos dust is dangerous solid bit aren't if they are intact or painted etc. Don't lick it and your all right [:)]

Like Cassis says, unless it is deteriorating, it is 'safe'. Ideally you don't want any around, but if you have trouble getting rid of it, either leave it where it is (assuming it is safe under the hedge), or wrap it up, label it and store it somewhere safe.

Burying it isn't to clever, as someone may unwittingly shatter it with a shovel and grow potatoes in the fragments [:)]

On the other hand you could do this

cheers

[powerdesal]

Its an unfortunate fact that the"elfansafety" industry has brainwashed people into believing that ALL asbestos type products are dangerous.

The asbestos-cement corrugated sheeting commonly used for sheds etc and the similar material pipes are not made of 'blue' asbestos (the dangerous type of asbestos). The dust from the c-a type is about as carcinogenic as talcum powder.

This does not make disposal any easier of course.

[oglefakes]

[quote user="powerdesal"]The dust from the c-a type is about as carcinogenic as talcum powder.

[/quote]

Ah, but there is big money to be made when people are nurtured to be scared.[:)]

That said, your example may be a bit unfortunate  [8-)]   (2nd paragraph)

It isn't widely know that many industries/applications still depend on good ol' asbestos for its heat resistance etc. No uch consolation to the hordes who died after working in James Hardie's mines (No need to moderate that slander as there is no one at  J.H. to complain, the board all resigned  last week)

[powerdesal]

I agree, but then I wouldn't advocate breathing in ANY dust (or talc) it not only clogs your nose but makes you sneeze as well   [:)]

Big money from fear will continue to rule.

[Jc]

Blue asbestos was the most dangerous but in the past couple of years ALL asbestos has been brought within the scope of the regulations.Asbestos cement items are not dangerous unless broken up.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Jc"]Blue asbestos was the most dangerous but in the past couple of years ALL asbestos has been brought within the scope of the regulations.Asbestos cement items are not dangerous unless broken up.[/quote]

Thats the whole point Jc,  All asbestos is in the regs because there is big money in the disposal, not because ALL asbestos is dangerous.

AC pipes are not dangerous when broken up, at least not dangerous in asbestos terms, they are sharp edged and will cut. Unless of course you know something that I dont (something provable that is). I will be more than happy to check any source you post. And, if I am wrong, I will apologise, but I dont think I am wrong.

[Chancer]

I forgot to add that while I was in England borrowing a transit I left 25 open sacks of the stuff  outside my house awaiting pick up.

If  I had done that at my house in the UK they would have closed the road off, erected a great big plastic tent and got in the men in white coats with respirators, all at my expense, probably a helicopter and the news crews as well!

What happened here in France was somewhat different, the 25 sacks mated with one and other and became 30 sacks!

[oglefakes]

[quote user="J.R."]

If  I had done that at my house in the UK they would have closed the road off, erected a great big plastic tent and got in the men in white coats with respirators, all at my expense, probably a helicopter and the news crews as well!

[/quote]

I can hear the Daily Mail readers crying "Nanny State" over that one [:D]

[Dick Smith]

I lost my father to asbestos-related cancer. Like a lot of people, so I think that reaction is unlikely. More likely a hefty fine for leaving potentially dangerous waste out in the open. But maybe people in France don't get cancer, so we don't have to take care.

[Chancer]

I understand what you mean Dick, actually it was not there for very long, just long enough to attract more.

Any waste left in the open is "potentially dangerous" to someone who is themselves "potentially dangerous"!

[Dick Smith]

My main point is that my father spent a good chunk of his time closely confined with asbestos which was said, at the time, to be totally safe. In my first job I was given a circular saw and some sheets of asbestos and told to cut them up to make Bunsen stands. So far, so good! At our school (when I had been teaching there for 15 years) they discovered that the walls were insulated with sheet asbestos. The same stuff my father had worked with all those years (he being a school caretaker). The safe stuff...

We need to be a bit future-aware with these materials, I believe.

[oglefakes]

Dick, I think the point that powerdesal and I were making tounge in cheek was more aimed at industries that make money from perceived fear, be it asbestos, reds under the bed, or the Euro,  rather than underestimating the genuine suffering asbestos has caused to a number of people.

A bit like the way the arms industry managed to sell the government enough nuclear weapons to destroy the plant 100 times over, when surely buying enough missiles to destroy it three or four times would have left more cash for schools and hospitals.[:)]

My brother bought a house and thought some parts were asbestos, which they were. he called several contractors out and two out of three said that is it was encapsulated by paint, there was more danger in breaking it up and filling the air with particles to be breathed. Only one guy used scare tactics. such as sharp intake of breath between clenched teeth (maybe he was a part time plumber) and not surprisingly, this guy quoted the most expensive price.

cheers

[Dick Smith]

I realise you were joking - no problem with that!

[tracteurtom]

OK thanks for the info and the stories along the way.  My plan of attack will be to wrap said pipe in plastic, taped it up and get to to a Decheterie before it mates with another one.  Funny how there's only 1 pipe............................[:D]

Cheers

Phil

[Chancer]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]My main point is that my father spent a good chunk of his time closely confined with asbestos which was said, at the time, to be totally safe. In my first job I was given a circular saw and some sheets of asbestos and told to cut them up to make Bunsen stands. So far, so good! At our school (when I had been teaching there for 15 years) they discovered that the walls were insulated with sheet asbestos. The same stuff my father had worked with all those years (he being a school caretaker). The safe stuff...

We need to be a bit future-aware with these materials, I believe.

[/quote]

Dick

I used to have a part time job during my apprenticeship helping to construct agricultural steel framed asbestos roofed buildings, when they were trimming the sheets up high with circular saws the dust fell like snow and we looked like father christmas at the end of the day. At school we used to nick the mats to explode in bonfires.

Perhaps it may come back to haunt me one day but personally it is the blue stuff that I am fearfull of, I was however rather worried in 2004 when I trekked along a logging trail to cross the border into Mozambique from Swaziland, I passed under ore cars travelling across the gorge carrying spoil from an asbestos mine and dust was blowing everywhere.

So I guess yes even with a laissez faire atttude I am more carefull than before but I do think that it has got silly in the UK driven by commercial interests and it looks to be going the same way here.

[Dick Smith]

I imagine it's the thought of the class-action negligence claims that might result from not taking every possible precaution. My father got his in the army, and then later in the school boiler-room, and when our school was cleaned up (about 25 years later) it was still as bad. A bit of compensation would have made a big difference for my mother, though.

[Simmy]

I agree chrysotile (white) asbestos is safer than crocidolite (blue) and the amphiboles (including brown).  There has been some discussion about whether the case for chrysotile has been overstated (eg articles in the Telegraph) but the people quoted often have links with the asbestos industry.  Some of the points made in such articles have been refuted by research by HSL but I think there is probably something in the thrust of their argument.  However, it is rare to find 'pure' chrysotile - ie it is often contaminated by the other forms - (in my experience even if one ceiling panel is shown by analysis to contain chrysotile the next may have significant amounts of crocidolite).  Therefore I agree with the UK approach to adopt the same standards for all asbestos.  Asbestos is after all the largest cause of work related death in the uk by some considerable margin.  Whilst the earlier deaths were predominantly those in asbestos mills, asbestos laggers and those in asbestos removal, they are now predominantly electricians, plumbers etc.

With regard to the original question, yes it can be safely disposed of as indicated in some of the earlier replies, wrapping it and using a dechetterie that will take it.  If it looks at all friable you can damp it down.

The French do seem to be storing up their own problems though:

In February 2005, a working party set up by the French Senate began to investigate the consequences of asbestos contamination in France. The authoritative 333 page report, which was published on October 26, 2005, says that 35,000 asbestos deaths occurred between 1965 and 1995 and predicts that 60,000-100,000 could occur in the coming 25 years.³ The report calls the country's asbestos cancer epidemic “inescapable and irreversible” and estimates that 27-37 billion euros will be needed in the next 20 years to treat victims. The manipulation of the government and public by an asbestos industry-backed public relations organization called le comite permanent amiante (CPA: the Permanent Committee on Asbestos), which operated between 1982 and 1995, was soundly criticized:

“(The CPA) was, in fact, nothing more than an industry lobby which used scientists, social partners and representatives from the relevant government ministries to promote the policy of the 'controlled use of asbestos,' as a viable option to an asbestos ban in France… the CPA was a model of lobbying, communication, manipulation and exploitation and, in the absence of action by the State, spread pseudo-scientific pro-asbestos propaganda which contradicted the state-of-knowledge regarding asbestos hazards prevalent in Anglo-Saxon literature of the time.”⁴

The massive use of asbestos in France has created an occupational and environmental health catastrophe for which the Government is to blame.

October 28, 2005

See: http://www.senat.fr/rap/r05-037-1/r05-037-1.html

[oglefakes]

"Asbestos is after all the largest cause of work related death in the uk by some considerable margin. "

I thought it was a close call between building site accidents  (falls etc) or vehicle accidents?

In the USA,  it is being murdered.

[Simmy]

Not the case ogleflakes.

In 2005/6,  59 employees & 42 self employed construction workers were killed in  UK.

Road accidents accounted for 3201 deaths in uk in 2005.  The number that were 'work related' is less clear but the HSE consider it might be as high as about 1000.

For asbestos the HSE considers there were between 3800 amd 4000 deaths from mesothelioma and lung cancer.  (The number from meso was 1969 in 2004 but the lung cancer figure is less clear because it is not so easy to determine cause).  In addition there would be further deaths from asbestosis.

Accidents at work account for far fewer deaths than ill health caused by work, but there is a much longer time lag between exposure to the hazard and death so less obvious.

[oglefakes]

Accidents at work account for far

fewer deaths than ill health caused by work, but there is a much longer

time lag between exposure to the hazard and death so less obvious.

Fair enough. Like you say, just because it takes 30 years, it doesn't change the root cause.