D-I-Y Renovation

[LaRue]

Got a small cottage in auvergne with water and electric but no toilet/bath room. Want to split empty space on 1st.floor into bedroom and bathroom. I am comfortable doing this work myself, my question is, am I breaking any law ?

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="LaRue"]Got a small cottage in auvergne with water and electric but no toilet/bath room. Want to split empty space on 1st.floor into bedroom and bathroom. I am comfortable doing this work myself, my question is, am I breaking any law ?[/quote]

I don't know what laws you are planning to break! But probably no.

[JimJams]

No

[BJSLIV]

When you say space , what is it?

If its a room then you probably won't need permission, unless you are adding or increasing windows. If its just a loft then you will need a Permis.

This will probably provoke an investigation into your current drainage, and will require you to bring up up to the current standards if the existing provision is inadequate.

[TT fan]

La Rue- Phillippe wrote this elsewhere.I have read on other forums very similar information.

Question

Can someone just confirm that you can do pretty much what you like inside a house, regarding modernisation (not a complete renovation)without any planning permission. I am thinking in terms of  an extra bathroom/taking down a partition wall.

I thought I read that you only needed planning permission if it changed the outside appearance, i.e. a dormer window in a loft conversion, but anything inside you could do freely, pretty much as in the UK.

What happens in the case of a property joined to another, i.e. semi-detached cottage, or flat? Do you have to get permission from the immediate neighbours for any internal  building/alteration works?

Phillippe replies

Simply-No, you cant do what you want as regards renovation inside the property.

To keep it as short as possible you have to notify the mairie so they will decide if you need permission not to need permission or otherwise. You cant hide this information because (leglislation) at point of sale at some point in your life time or others a comparison is made on how property differs from previous. I have sat in as translator with the notaire over a number of property transactions over the years with English. My last three were delayed either because of above (one fell through totally) or they had to get work they had done themselves approved and signed off by an artisan (very costly), and they were informed that should there have been an accident / fire etc due to any new work detected at fault  they would have had to produce the certificate/ account of work approved if unable to have done this than the Insurance quite likely could have been invalid. The Notaire also offered a compromise to the clients (where the sale fell through) because no Artisan was prepared to Authorise a certificate/ approval for the new inrerior walls and part of roof that was built by the proprietor the Notaire said it was usual for a bond to be paid over to the Notaire and held for 3 years to cover costs should it collapse! The house was withdrawn from sale.

 

A lot of old farmhouses (as an example) have been reclassified as farm buildings to avoid payment of tax –look at your rate. If this is the case you will need a CU to provide agreement in principle to reinstatement of the building as a house (even though it was lived in before). This will outline any restrictions eg you may be allowed to renovate but not demolish and rebuild and if you  are reclassifying the building as a house being that its a holiday home or resident home and not farming (you cant class yourself as a farmer - have to be a registered working farmer) ,  you need a Permis de Construire. By going to your mairie all you questions will be answered . Remember that departments often differ on their interpretation on some regulations so do not hide anything because you can be sure your neighbour will know what you are up to. Please explain to your neighbour it will make your life easier.

[Nick Trollope]

Uhmmmm. Who is Phillippe?

I ask because his advice is not actually that close to the truth (or your interperetation of it). The advice to talk to the Mairie is good. But I don't know what this piece of legislation that comares properties, is. The Impots records? Even if you have moved internal walls, there are no records that will show this. Yes, in theory, the number of bathrooms will be known, but even if you have added 6, there is no legislation that says they must be built by an Artisan.

A Notaire won't ask for a "certificate" - a buyer might, but one isn't available (or exists), then they can't have one. It is then up to the buyer/seller to decide whether to proceed - it is not a matter of legislation.

Farm buildings? Certainly if they have never been habitation (as in a barn) then you will need a PdeC, if they were reclassified simply to avoid taxes (I am not sure that this is possible - why would it be? If a building is not inhabitable, then it will not be taxed), then I don't think that you need anything other than a CdeU.

My original throw-away comment to the OP was a request for more information. For example he could (as others have pointed out), be breaking planning laws. BUT, there is little legislation that controls internal works, no "listed building" consent and no party-wall laws.

 

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

 

[LaRue]

Thank you all for your advice, the space is an unused room and there will be no change to external walls other than dirty water pipes out, so I don't think I will be needing planning permission. However, since I will be asking madame le mairie if she will approve a mini station d'epuration without soakaway pipes I've decided to just let her know what I'm intending to do. Many thanks all.

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="LaRue"]Thank you all for your advice, the space is an

unused room and there will be no change to external walls other than

dirty water pipes out, so I don't think I will be needing planning

permission. However, since I will be asking madame le mairie if she

will approve a mini station d'epuration without soakaway pipes I've

decided to just let her know what I'm intending to do. Many thanks

all.[/quote]

I think these days the Mairie has no choice but to point you in the

direction of your local SPANC, or SPINC or whatever it is, for a

full-blown fosse toutes-eaux. Certainly that is the case here in the Limousin.

If the room in question is/was an ordinary 'piece' accessible directly

from within the main house, an unused bedroom say, then it is yours to

change and/alter to your heart's content if you don't alter the

exterior (by adding a window for example). You should - in theory - ask

the the local tax office for an H1 form when you've finished as -

having added value to the property - you are supposed to declare it and

have it added to your taxe fonciere.

Voluntarily paying more tax doesn't exactly sound like the french way though, does it?

p

[TT fan]

 

Philippe’s information I read in Buildings & Renovation-Planning Permission not required in house? 23/03/07. I was only trying to help .I copied and pasted the article - nothing to do with me -not my interpretation, I just thought it relavent.I had no reason to question what was written- it appeared in good faith.The information does seem to be following a pattern of what is happening in the UK.I personally think its important to have serious work done by a registered builder  (electrician or plumber) in France be it an English Artisan or French- otherwise you have no comeback as regards insurance. Mrs TT

[Deimos]

I've had a number of architects round to advise me on converting an attic (which it seems they all agree I do not need permissions for due to its current state).  However, something else they all agreed on is that if you don't need permission for something then don't ask for it.  They commented that the process of asking may easily cause the person you are asking to make checks on what might apply and they commented that as there are so many regulations, which apply to what, how and when is something that is open to quite a bit of interpretation and that the process or asking at best risks delaying things and may easily complicating something a lot - when you don't need to ask anyway.

If you are unsure from the responses here, call a local architect and ask him to come round to advice you (cost a few hours work).  The ones I got also came up with some really good suggestions about other things as well.

Ian