Poolguy Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 [quote user="Caussenarde"]But back in the real world...the here and now...what about overheat...where does 120Kw actually go chez vous when it is 38C outside...If I could just figure that out then solar for CH is a goer...sinon..PS we already have climatisation.[/quote] The excess heat is easily vented to the air, and the tubes themselves will stagnate (stop working) once the nipple temperature in the manifold reach about 250°c. The exterior vent is assisted by an expansion chamber that can accommodate the entire mass of circulation fluid as a gas. Overheating is no real problem in this system (but it is in cheaper systems), but its a shame to waist the energy collected if it can be used in the way GlueStick mentions or some other useful technology - perhaps steam/hydroelectric???Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 It is the real world; right now.Solar powered integrated HAV systems are being used all over the world in conjunction with heat pumps and waste heat recyling plants (TriPart), since energy costs for larger commercial buildings are crippling.No one has thus far seen fit to roll out domestic solutions, until now. With rapidly rising energy costs, in hot climates then this has to be the next big wave after solar DHW and space heating.And with China now mass-producing photovoltaics, their cost is already tumbling, rapidly.If you are considering converting extant heating to solar on cost grounds, surely it makes financial sense to evaluate converting the air-con too?Many current solutions use photovoltaic cells to power a conventional fridge pump. Sanyo, for example. However, to me that's a clumsy way due to the efficiency losses encountered at each energy translation step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 [quote user="Poolguy"] [quote user="Caussenarde"]But back in the real world...the here and now...what about overheat...where does 120Kw actually go chez vous when it is 38C outside...If I could just figure that out then solar for CH is a goer...sinon..PS we already have climatisation.[/quote] The excess heat is easily vented to the air, and the tubes themselves will stagnate (stop working) once the nipple temperature in the manifold reach about 250°c. The exterior vent is assisted by an expansion chamber that can accommodate the entire mass of circulation fluid as a gas. Overheating is no real problem in this system (but it is in cheaper systems), but its a shame to waist the energy collected if it can be used in the way GlueStick mentions or some other useful technology - perhaps steam/hydroelectric???Andrew[/quote]Logical way, Andrew, is to create a large scale heat dump storage: I have a suspicion these will be undergound, as even slight (1.5-2 Metres) sub-terranian temps, are higher than ambient air Winter, and vary little hroughout the year: which is why GS heatpumps and slinkies work.The other approach may well be generation of electricity using Thermocouple/Thermopile technology, which together with room temperature super conductivity is leaping forward presently.As you say, a shame to waste all that lovely, free collected energy! Sell it to EDF/GDF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 I will be watching this thread with interest because I would love to find an alternative if it works. Gluestick, do you know if these solar panels can only be fitted on a roof?J.R. and Bigmac thank you for the comments in regards to the plumber's devis. The reason I asked the question in the first place is because we have had some problems with him. Unfortunately, the biggest is the length of time it is taking him to finish the job and because of this I have lost some confidence in him amongst a few other reasons.It appears he was competitive with his original devis but any additional work that wasn't included, he seems to be taking advantage. One example I can think of without looking at the invoices is he charged €500 to add anti-freeze to the central heating system that he installed all of the pipes for. Perhaps this is reasonable, but I was shocked. By the way, he is also the electrician (French and registered) and it has taken him over a year, but it should have taken him only a few months at the most. He does spend a lot of time there but also disappears but when he is there he seems to be either struggling or making a meal. Even though he is about my age, he has been there for so long in one go, I feel as though I have adopted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 [quote user="WJT"]I will be watching this thread with interest because I would love to find an alternative if it works. Gluestick, do you know if these solar panels can only be fitted on a roof? [/quote]Practically, Solar Collectors can be sited anywhere. SUbject, of course, to planning constraints.An ex co-director of mine had a solar array sited on the undulating ground of his Surrey house, beneath the pool.Most serious arrays are mounted on the ground and have a servo-controlled motor drive which tilts the panels to follow the sun as it progresses around the sky.http://www.sharpusa.com/files/sol_dow_Arizona_CaseHistory.pdf . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caussenarde Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hi Gluestick,I too am well aware of HVAC systems powered by heat.However, my reference to the here and now comes from the fact that I amgoing to design, buy and install in the next few months (ie this year)and so I am interested in Andrew's solar tubes as a possible additional source of energy for autumn and spring months. Your inference that I am renewing an existing system on cost grounds is ill-founded. I am extending an existing system and in fact diversity ofsupply is my prime goal, not cost of operation. The heat sources will be gas, electricity and wood. Solar is, as you know, under consideration.Regarding changing my existing aircon gear...no RoI in that proposition I'm afraid..I have a total of 5 Daikin external air-handlers already installed in various buildings so there is no question of replacing working first class equipment. Now, they are excellent at heating rooms, using solar source (aka warm air) in spring & autumn, and I could well decide to invest in one more instead of, or in addition to any solar radiation collectors. No heat dumping required! I think I have just answered my own questions aimed at Andrew !Hope this gives you a better idea of what I am looking to do.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sorry about that inference: it's been giving me trouble for some time now.However next month I'm booked in for an inferenceectomy which ought to sort out the problem.[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caussenarde Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I wish.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I am intrigued why when the Devis sews up the contract sum fairly effectively it doesn't nail down the programme. being able to stipulate completiondates and apply LADs would be handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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