Water & Electricity services supplies cost

[SteveH]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum so pls forgive me if this topic's been covered previously

Does anyone by chance have any idea what an average cost for the supply of services (water & electricity) would be for a new build plot?

I know it's all very dependant upon varying factors but we're within 100 m of other existing older properties.

Our location is Charente & we're in the process of buying a building plot.

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

[tinabee]

We paid just under 1000 for water supply (not drains) and just over 1000 for electricity connection in 2011/12.

This website is really useful for helping with budgeting and checklists

http://www.maison-conseil.com/construction-amenagement-maison-individuelle.asp

[Stewart]

1000 electricity 1500 water. 2014 But it all depends on the amount of work they need to do to get it to you.

If you go online ERDF and SAUR you can get a devis.

[SteveH]

Hi again,

We're in the process of buying a building plot with a CU in place.

I've made contact with the architect who produced the plans upon which the CU was granted.

He informed me that we could only build on this land using his services & that we could not instruct any other firm of Architects.

i thought he was referring to the fact that we couldn't build his design on the plot without him but he seems firm in his stance that we simply cannot use anyone else other than him?

Apart from the fact that we don't like the design (I understand we'll have to apply for a change/amendment) this person isn't someone we'd use.

Does anyone have any experience with this, is this the case ?

Any assistance would be very much appreciated ..

[idun]

I don't understand why someone would not have informed you of these clauses in the first place, ie the vendor, maybe an agency OR your notaire.

If you don't like it and have not handed over any money, or signed anything, I reckon I would steer clear.

[Quillan]

I think a trip to a Notaire might be in order, take a translator if need be. I have to say although I have never bought a building plot I have never heard of this. What I have heard of and know the person first hand is a plot being sold 'land locked' i.e. no access. He stopped the proceedings at the Notaires when a professional translator he took with him pointed it out and in the end the agent had to buy a strip of land to give the guy access at their expense and give it to the guy buying the plot. Although not land but a building we were once offered. It was an old barn to renovate where a corner of about 5m2 would never belong to us and we had to provide access 24/7 should the owner wish to visit. Needless to say we didn't buy.

[Gardian]

I have to say that, even in 'protectionist France', this sounds like complete rowlocks.

I've had a look round the internet, but can't find any such condition - but just because I couldn't find anything, doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist!

It might be worth contacting the local architects professional association to check this out, assuming of course that your man isn't the local President! I did when I needed an architect and they were very helpful.

So they should be though. This bloke's attitude is unethical and unprofessional, only serving to alienate you. It would be disappointing if the local professional organisation didn't feel likewise.

Best of luck & do let us know how you get on.

[SteveH]

Thanks for your help so far.

we've asked the Notaire & local Marie for an explanation but so far no news.

We're not yet at the stage of signing the Compromise but it's come as complete surprise, given the tone of the message we'd not want to work with this guy on principle!

[Quillan]

I'm just throwing things in the air here but would the DDE know?

[Quillan]

Well I wrote quite a bit then made a phone call which may or may not get to the bottom of things.

If the land is being sold by a builder as opposed to an individual then it is quite possible that there is something in the agreement, like actually written, that the OP have to use said architect. If it is being sold by an private individual(s) then this cannot be the case.

If we say it is not a builder selling the land then the OP is under no obligation whatsoever to use said architect.

The CU is only permission to build something on the land i.e. in this case a dwelling. It does not in any way define exactly what that dwelling will look like. That only happens when you get to the point of asking for the PC Permis de construire.

I am making an assumption in that the OP will be looking for a builder to build his house. If you do then a good reputable builder will do the plans for you and submit them for approval providing they are under 170m2 habitable area. The typical cost for this is around 1,600 Euros (thats the rate where I live).

So if only the CU has been issued and the plot is not being sold by a builder you can tell said architect to 'rugger off'.

[SteveH]

Thanks for taking the time to help here.

It's a private sale but the guy who's selling the land seems to be having money problems.

The CU gives full planning for a specific design, I'm not sure but wonder if perhaps the Architect did the plans on the basis he'd get the job, possibly he applied for the CU in his name?

The Marie opens only part time & the person who's advising seems to reply only once a week at best.

When we get to the bottom of this I'll let you know

[Quillan]

[quote user="Stewart"]1000 electricity 1500 water. 2014 But it all depends on the amount of work they need to do to get it to you. If you go online ERDF and SAUR you can get a devis.[/quote]

I asked my mate who has just finished his house and of course, being France, nothing is simple. I shall use English terms to describe.

You are responsible for running the cable from your house to a point on the border which they will determine from where they will make the connection. If your house is less than 30M from said point you also need to run, a separate cable for the meter reader. You need to get a test certificate for the wiring etc in your house tested from the input side of your consumer unit. ERDF will supply the meter and main house breaker and place the meter reading device at the boundry of your property.

If your house is more than 30M then you must run just the power cable from your consumer panel back to the boundary and the test is done from there. ERDF then put a small cabinet up and the breaker and meter will go in that. ERDF must be able to read your meter (via the remote magnets pad thing) from outside your property. That’s the rules at present and will however change as the new Linky meters are rolled out which allows ERDF to check your meter remotely i.e. no manual reading required. It cost him 600 Euros for the actual connection, the meter, reader pad and breaker are 'free'. Having said that the worse he has personally heard of is over 7k, it depends where the house is and how close the nearest supply is as you said.

[Quillan]

[quote user="SteveH"]Thanks for taking the time to help here. It's a private sale but the guy who's selling the land seems to be having money problems. The CU gives full planning for a specific design, I'm not sure but wonder if perhaps the Architect did the plans on the basis he'd get the job, possibly he applied for the CU in his name? The Marie opens only part time & the person who's advising seems to reply only once a week at best. When we get to the bottom of this I'll let you know[/quote]

OK, absolutely a CU does not require a full set of drawings as required to build the house. It only requires a rough sketch of where it is going to be. This can be changed before you apply for the PC if you wish. If I take what you are saying as correct then it appears not only do you have the CU but the PC as well in which case the architect is looking to recuperate his costs. Really he should be taking this from the seller as it is he (or she) that commissioned him. I asked around and an architect can't enter the plans under his or hers own name. The only time this can change is if you are using a mortgage to fund the purchase and build. If that is the case then the bank will require you to have both the CU and PC in place, full set of drawings and the seller must install a water and electricity supply to the border of the land (and sewage) prior to the bank handing over any money.

This information comes directly from a friend of mine who has literally just finished his 'self build' house and moved in four weeks ago so I think he knows what he is talking about. The information about the mortgage came from his son who was looking at buying some land to build his house but the sale fell through (the land, it turned out, was not his to sell - thats another thing you need to check via the notaire. It is not unheard of).

 

[Chancer]

Sounds like something I have just written on another thread, the cultural "someone somewhere is going to pay me".

I would say that the architect has not been paid for his work by the client, it may be a pragmatic decision to use him in some limited manner as otherwise he is going to be very reluctant to answer any queries, he for his part is going to expect you to pay him for all the work that he has done as for the above reasons he sees you as the beneficiary.

On the other hand once a professional has been paid they act like any other artisan in refusing to accept any responsibility for their work even just to answer queries so you will probably be no worse off by dumping him.

I had a 200 amp electricity supply laid on for 7 apartments plus general services for €920, there was a very long and unecessary delay due to their incompetence and I negotiated the supply and install of the 7 compteurs and disjoncteurs and the mise en service's FOC as partial compensation.

[Daft Doctor]

We've been through the whole process from start to finish over the last 2 years. On the services side, what has been said is right. Often plots are sold 'viabilisé', i.e. with all services at the boundary, as they often are more easily saleable and the extra price commanded compensates for the cost of securing the utilities.

If as it sounds the plot is 'non-viabilisé' then electricity, water, drainage and telephone normally need to be provided as a condition of the permis de construire, and usually all cabling has to be underground. For water and drainage it is 'services eau et assainissement' at the Mairie who will tell you where the nearest access to the public networks are. It is then your job to employ a terrassier to dig the trenches needed and lay the drains and water pipes. There is a charge by the Mairie to connect up to the water network and provide a meter, approx. 550 euros in our case, and we had a one off charge of close to 2000 euros for accessing the drainage, even though the terrassier did all the connections. Digging trenches and laying pipes is quite expensive, I'd account for approx. 1000 euros per 10 metres including the pipes, any inspection chambers, etc.

For electricity and telephone, quotes can be obtained from ERDF and Orange respectively, the process isn't too difficult even without good French and can be kicked off in both cases online. We had mains electricity within 10m of the boundary of our plot and telecoms within 30m. We had to have a trench dug for our drains so had a telecoms conduit laid at the same time between the public junction box and our boundary. The cost for electricity connection to the boundary was about 850 euros with another 350 or so to connect up the house, fit an internal meter, etc. The phone however was only 69 euros as I was already an Orange customer transferring my service, number, internet, etc to a new address.

Regarding the conditions being placed on the sale plot, I'd agree with what others have said, walk away unless you have absolute freedom of choice over what is designed and built and by whom.

[idun]

This all sounds fishy.

You don't need your Mairie to be open, as Q

said, you need to go to your DDE office,  all the (CU and PC) plans and

planning permission go through their office.

And you need to talk to the notaire.

Frankly, I would just laisser tomber to honest. What a mess it is. And this is just the start.

It

is only a bit of land, France is rather a big country and in the

current climate, I'm sure that other land and houses will be up for sale

and easier to buy than this. And if you back out, I would get

whichsoever notaire you are going to use involved right from the

beginning, making sure that every last clause etc is explained in full.

[Quillan]

As Idun and somebody else said perhaps it is best walk away. She is right about mayor, going through him is only a courtesy after all, it is the DDE who you are really dealing with and it is they that say yes or no. They can also tell you if you want to change the plans what is acceptable.

I do however understand that it is easy to say walk away but if you have been looking for a while and you have found your ideal plot it's not that easy. Your plot IS out there somewhere, perhaps it might not be this one, perhaps you're driving around all fed up with it all and accidentally stumble upon the one of your dreams.

One last thing reading through the posts after mine. If I am correct the notaire is legally bound to ensure that there are no debts on the sale/purchase, land in your case, and all taxes are paid. Normally he/she will take your money, pay any debts and taxes then hand what's left to the seller. Therefore I can't see really how you would end up 'owing' an architect. I would check that out myself I were you by visiting the notaire.

[SteveH]

Just a short note to thank everyone who's given advice on this subject.

It seems (as was thought) that the Architect was trying it on.

when pushed, he's accepted that what he "really meant to say" was that there's copyright on his plans & there was perhaps a mis understanding !!

My main concern previously was that actually we don't like the style nor accommodation he proposed in the first place.

[Quillan]

Even then he is on dodgy ground. The 'title' of the plans remains with the architect until they are paid for. The 'copyright' is with the person who asked for them to be created.

If I were you and not building it myself (hands on) I would find a builder who will do them and push them through the system. You could ask the architect to give you a quote or Devis as it is called just to give him a chance but let him know your are getting several quotes and don't tell anyone who you ask for a quote who the others are, not even a hint. It sorts of puts thing 'right' between you and him plus just because he tried it on does not necessarily make him a bad architect.

When choosing a builder don't grab the first one that comes along and obviously look for a good one. The rule of thumb is the longer you have to wait for a builder the better they are. If you get one that can start to build next week then he should ring alarm bells. The top builder where I live has a three years wait and the second best around two years, the rest about a year. You need to look around and see who is building, ask at houses recently finish what the owner thinks of the builder and generally ask around. The locals know who the good builders are. The best builder in our area has been around for years and locals are very happy to buy a house that he has built because they know it is to a good standard which makes it easier to sell even 30 years later.

Anyway best of luck and I hope it all works out well for you.