joidevie Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Is it common that (very) old black EDF fuses (mains trip switch) start to play up?We have been in our house for roughly 5 years and have never had any problems until last October when the switch tripped on us while we were staying in the house. We we not using any heating or heavy appliances, and nothing had changed since the initial re-wire when we moved in. My last visit in January and it tripped twice on me, once while the dishwasher was running (plus 2 electric heaters), the other for no reason at all.We've now come back in February to a tripped switch again and a sadly de-frosting freezer. The only appliance running while we are away is a fridge freezer, so I'm a little confused and concerned we may loose another freezer load soon..Can there be an obvious reason for this? It's a 30amp switch running a 6kva supply. Will EDF come and replace it (and the meter - early blue dial type) and nominal cost, and if so, will they unnecessarily start 'up selling' us a bigger supply? Indeed, would this solve the problem?Many thanks if anyone has any good knowledge on this one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kong Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I had a faulty disjoncteur, it was difficult to reset it. Then the meter went AWOL (no display). ERDF were round in a couple of days and replaced both. Not unexpected quick service as I was consuming unmonitored energy! No charge was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Firstly get the freezer checked by a proper French electrician and make sure you get a facture. The reason for this suggestion is that a friend of mine had a problem with his when it started, something about a capacitor. He had a smaller supply and it kept tripping almost every time the freezer starter. Once the freezer was running it was not a problem. The reason for this is explained in the next bit.Give ERDF a call on their hotline (If you want the English one the number is 05 62 16 49 08) and tell them the problem. They may say that if their technician comes to check it and there is no problem you will have to pay hence getting the freezer checked by a qualified electrician. Each ERDF technician normally has a particular area to work in and visits your sector on a particular day of the week. He/she also normally knows all the local electricians as well which works in your favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 [quote user="Kong"]I had a faulty disjoncteur, it was difficult to reset it. Then the meter went AWOL (no display). ERDF were round in a couple of days and replaced both. Not unexpected quick service as I was consuming unmonitored energy! No charge was made.[/quote]We had a three year, four meter change, problem with our meter and I was worried about ending up having a massive estimated and corrected bill. The ERDF technition (whom I ended up on first name terms after so many visits) told me that they can only charge for whats on the meter. If the display goes they can try and extract the data from the meters memory although in most cases the whole thing is fried.You may also get a LINKY meter which is the new 'intelegent' meter being rolled out across France depending on where you live and how the rollout is going. We are due to have ours installed within the next 18 months and you don't get a choice in having it or not. That was a problem for us because we have a special TEPMO meter that conrols our heating and they don't make them anymore so they had to hunt one down from another region as they had run out of stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kong Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 What happened in my case is EDF made an estimate based on the previous year's consumption. I was taking weekly readings so had a very accurate estimate of the few days I had 'lost'. My estimate was greater than theirs so I accepted their estimate with good grace. :o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The most important and obvious thing to me is to decide why the disjoncteur is tripping, it has two functions, to trip on overcurrent and if it has tripped whilst the house is unoccupied and with no heating left on even on hors gel setting then it doesn't sound like that.The second function is differential protection and given that its 500ma rating is sixteen times the limit to prevent death from electrocution you should take this very very seriously.First and obvious question, your tableau de répartition, are all the circuits on it protected by a 30ma interrupteur différentiel?If so then test their function using the test button, if all appears well then its likely that the main appareil général de commande et protection (AGCP) is faulty, either that or the cable between it and your tableau de répartition has an insulation breakdown, if you are on the type 2 I think its called connection with the AGCP on the limit of your property, this again is a very serious life threatening matter.To recap, any differential current or earth leakage from a freezer etc, which does occur at a de minimis level should only trip the relevant ID in the tableau and not the main AGCP, even if it is serious enough (>500ma) to trip the AGCP the reaction time of the ID should be faster so that only it trips.If you dont have any differential protection in your tableau then get some as a matter of priority.Hope that helps, I know it sounds alarmist compared to the other postings but 500ma at 230vac is lethal and we cannot assume from what you have written that your tableau has the correct ID's fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 You are mixing French and English again Chancer. Could confuse people. [;-)]The only thing he had on was the freezer which is why I suggested he gets it checked first. If he doesn't and there is nothing wrong with 'mains breaker switch' then ERDF will sting him for the visit.For the OP. If there is nothing wrong with the freezer, the 'mains breaker switch' is replaced and it keeps happening then I strongly recommend that you get all the electrics in the house tested from, and including, the distribution board as there may be another fault somewhere else that might become very dangerous. It is not unheard off for rodents to eat through cables for example which can result in fires. Does not happen frequently but it is not unheard of. If that passes then you need to unplug half the house. If you still get a problem half it again and again until to get to the offending device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I used the french terms to be helpfull because its no point asking EDF to replace your "main breaker"My comments stand regarding the differential protection that should be in the tableau, I now see that the OP has had that replaced so Under no circumstances should the freezer trip the 500ma "main breaker" as you prefer to call it.On one hand you are saying that you dont want him to be stung for an EDF visit to replace the AGCP yet then you advocate him to have it replaced before having the tableau checked, that is plain daft and contrary to your first desire.I repeat, assuming the tableau has the correct ID's fitted, and if its a recent install it must have unless perhaps it was an English fuseboard, then the 30ma ID's in the tableau should trip from a fault current of any circuit and never the main 500ma AGCP. If it is tripping its either through overload, that it is faulty perhaps being triggered by lightning, or that there is a dangerous fault in the cable between it and the main tableau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joidevie Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 [quote user="Chancer"]First and obvious question, your tableau de répartition, are all the circuits on it protected by a 30ma interrupteur différentiel?[/quote]Many thanks for all the informed replies.. Much of which helps makes sense.The tableau de répartition is only 5 years old and actually has 3x separate 30ma switches. I have now 'tested' each one by pressing the "T" button and each switches off (although the third one requires a slightly harder press than the other two if that makes a difference?).There does not seem to be any rodent damage to the supply cable coming to the tableau de répartition from the AGCP. The fridge/freezer is a 4yo Bosch which whilst I can't eliminate, would surprise me if it were faulty (though I understand the logic in the testing)..In truth, nothing has really changed inside the house since the rewire when we moved in. The AGCP is truly old - probably 1940's/1950's - a black one with an up/down switch rather than even a green 'button'..It's the random nature that confuses me - no consistency.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I had an older one before installing my colonne collectif which now has 7 of the new type, the trip current and response time is in theory the same for both old and new, if anything the older ones are a little more robust.The only thing that I would do now is to provoke a greater than 500ma leakage current downstream of your 30ma ID's to verify that the relevant one trips and the main AGCP doesnt trip, if they both go that indicates that the response time of the AGCP is too fast and it would be prudent to have it replaced by EDF.I am deliberately not going to describe how to do the above for safety reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joidevie Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 [quote user="Chancer"]I am deliberately not going to describe how to do the above for safety reasons.[/quote]........ that would have been my next question..... [I] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Lets not get too technical and look at basics as none of us are French qualified electricians and quite often people go for a complicated solution when the simple one is right in front of them.The three 'safety' breakers on your distribution board, did any of them trip at the same time?If they didn't then I would suggest you phone ERDF for a technician. If they did then get a qualified electrician in (possibly the one who did the rewire) to check out the circuits that are controlled by that particular 'safety' breaker and the devices connected to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joidevie Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 [quote user="Quillan"]The three 'safety' breakers on your distribution board, did any of them trip at the same time?[/quote]... No, none of the breakers on our own board have ever tripped. We just had another trip while the kettle was on, but I really don't think that is so relevant as so little else is in service (much of the house is yet to be made 'live' - ie. upstairs heaters and so on.) Very little is 'in use' which is why I'm a smidge confused..Thanks again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Quillan, all you are doing is repeating what I have already posted whilst saying lets not get too technical, perhaps what I wrote was in technical terms or using the correct French terms meant that you didnt understand.As for none of us being qualified electricians French or otherwise, speak for yourself. Having wired 5 properties and passed Consuel on all of them, doing 2 more as we speak, having designed and installed a 400 amp 3 phase distribution colonne collectif which I bet you will never find any French electrician with experience of as EDF (wrongly) claim only they are authorised to do them, which once again was signed off and still being a UK qualified electrician I do know enough about the subject to know when I can give advice and when to seek it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 [quote user="joidevie"][quote user="Quillan"] The three 'safety' breakers on your distribution board, did any of them trip at the same time?[/quote]... No, none of the breakers on our own board have ever tripped. We just had another trip while the kettle was on, but I really don't think that is so relevant as so little else is in service (much of the house is yet to be made 'live' - ie. upstairs heaters and so on.) Very little is 'in use' which is why I'm a smidge confused..Thanks again..[/quote]If I were in your shoes then I would give ERDF a call. Sounds like the problem is on their side so it's down to them. I think the techie will take a look and just change it to a more modern breaker given the age you have said it is and hopefully that will be the end of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joidevie Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Many thanks..Seems the most sensible.. Although I hope the techie won't want to do a full inspection throughout the house as I'm sure there might be one or two unfinished wiring jobs as we're still DIY renovating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 As long as it is clear that the unfinished jobs are not connected to the distribution board it should be OK. Handy to have the electricians details handy so the techie can phone him if he wants but I doubt it will come to that. My experience has been that they are only interested in the power in, through the breaker upto and including the meter. With my unique problem I did provide an electrician on site for one of the visits and the techie only asked him about two questions, it was embarrassing really as I had the chap (electrician) there and I was paying for him to attend. Fortunately he took pity on me and didn't charge me. I get a feeling that French electricians don't think much of the ERDF techies. I can understand that as in my case it was an external fault and it took them nearly four years to fix. Good luck and I hope it works out well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 EDF have no responsability and take no interest in anything beyond their equipment, downstream of the AGCP is deemed to be coté client, upstream coté EDF, they reconnected my property that had 80 year old crumbling fabric wiring, no earthing, 3 porcelain fuses to protect a 6 room hotel, bar, restaurant and commercial kitchen, being fuses they only cut the live feed not the negative and EDF managed to reverse the polaarity during reconnection or didnt check it, perhaps it was always that way, thanks to them removal of a fuse left all the supposedly protected circuits still live [:-))]All they did was wish me luck and tell me that I would need it, they werent wrong, it took me several days of repairs (bodges if the truth be known) to even get intermittent power to the appliances with only a tiny bit of protection from the 500ma AGCPThe only exception to the above is a new installation they wont touch without a Consuel attestation, even then they would connect it if they could see bare unprotected wires, they have left bare unprotected wires on my facade from when they did my branchement definitif to the collectif, 50mm2 cables that could carry several megawatts of fault current without any protection apart from back at the transformer, if I leaned my ladder against them then the whole street would be blacked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 [quote user="Chancer"]3 porcelain fuses to protect a 6 room hotel, bar, restaurant and commercial kitchen,[/quote]No need to show off, just because you had a spare fuse [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondie Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 We had a disjointeur/main cut out switch go on us. It was hypersensitive to everything at the end. So we just replaced it and everything is fine now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now