CU

[berkey]

Hi wonder if anyone can help.  We purchased a derelict house with a barn attached

in 2007 for renovation (Charente region). 

There was a valid CU at the time. 

When this ran out we obtained another CU.  Due to the recession we never did any of the

work apart from demolishing the barn, building a gable end wall, and making a

driveway.  We never renewed the CU after

it expired.  We put the house up for sale

(it has taken so long to sell because of the cost to connect electricity) and

accepted an offer just before Christmas, on condition that a CU would be

granted.  The purchaser agreed to pay for

all electrics and didn’t expect the commune to pay anything towards this. We

have just found out today that the sale has been cancelled because the mairee and

edf now say that it isn’t a house and won’t grant another CU.  As you can imagine we don’t know where to go

from here.  If this is the case we own a

field (a very expensive field)

Any help would be appreciated

[Cendrillon]

I don't have any answers for you but am really sorry to hear of your situation re. the CU. Is there any way you can appeal to some higher department?

[Patf]

You could try the DDT Charente.

 - Google it for addresses, one in Cognac, one in Angouleme.

They're the ones that ultimately issue the CUs.

Hope things work out for you, an unwelcome lesson.

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, I wasn't aware that any building was necessary to obtain a CU. We bought a plot of land on which someone lived in two wooden shacks which were to be demolished. They obtained a CU on the land, on which we subsequently obtained a permis de construire and build a house. I thought a CU was for that purpose, i.e. a pre-planning consent of sorts?

[idun]

Yes, contact the DDE, or is the DDT these days, in fact go and see them and discuss this. What I do not understand is that there is a house on the land already. So when you go, and I really would go and see them, take the plans with you and photos and discuss it all.

Still, I am wondering if there is now a problem as you knocked the barn down, I very vaguely remembering quite a big  fuss in our french village, more years ago than I care to remember when a family bought a derelict house and knocked it down, to rebuild on the site, but  before everything else was in place and they didn't get any planning permission afterwards.

[andyh4]

Daft Doctor wrote:

Hi, I wasn't aware that any building was necessary to obtain a CU. We bought a plot of land on which someone lived in two wooden shacks which were to be demolished. They obtained a CU on the land, on which we subsequently obtained a permis de construire and build a house. I thought a CU was for that purpose, i.e. a pre-planning consent of sorts

Unquote

An existing building on a plot is not necessary to obtain a CU, but conversely an existing building does not give automatic access to a CU - as the OP has sadly found.

There were some equally unfortunate cases a few years ago where people bought abandoned cottages attached to large barns with the intention of extending into the barn. Only to find that not only could they not get a CU for the extension, but that the cottage was no longer listed as a habitation, the land had been re-zoned and they could not legally live in it.

[berkey]

Thank you for all your replies.  I'll try to contact the DDT tomorrow.  Anything is worth a try

[berkey]

Thank you. I think this is the same situation. I just don't understand how they can grant a CU one year then suddenly say its not habitable. And all this without consulting the owners. Do you know if the people you mentioned above ever managed to change the zoning or if they just had to accept the situation

 

[tinabee]

[quote user="berkey"]

Thank you. I think this is the same situation. I just don't understand how they can grant a CU one year then suddenly say its not habitable. And all this without consulting the owners. Do you know if the people you mentioned above ever managed to change the zoning or if they just had to accept the situation

 

[/quote]

There was a massive review and rezoning of building land across France a few years ago resulting in every commune having a plan or chart of what land was classed as constructable. Many plots of land that had previously been granted CU's were excluded. There was a lot of information in the press about it, and there would have been notification of the surveys in your local town hall. Your first call might be to the town hall to ask to see either the Plan Local d'Urbanisme or Charte Communale.

[Foxie]

"I just don't understand how they can grant a CU one year then suddenly say its not habitable"

There's degrees of uninhabitable though - there's properties that are classed as inhabitable but that are temporarily in an uninhabitable condition, and there's properties that aren't classed as inhabitable at all. As said a CU doesn't mean it's a residential plot, it means for as long as the CU is valid it has the potential to become a residential plot, subject to planning permission being granted for whatever you build.

Has there ever been any mention ever of taxe d'habitation? If not, that would imply that was uninhabitable as in not classed as an inhabitable property when you bought it. On the other hand if taxe d'habitation has cropped up, and you've either been paying it or more likely getting the Mairie to approve an exemption each 1st Jan on the grounds that it's not currently in an inhabitable condition, then as you say they can't suddenly turn round and say that it's not inhabitable.

If no taxe d'habitation has ever been asked for, it looks as if you bought a plot of land not a house. Unfortunately the commune's urbanisme plans are not set in stone, they keep reviewing what they have and how best to make the most of what they have and develop it to meet current and future needs, What's changed is that that the commune has decided it doesn't need any more houses, or at least not right there.

[andyh4]

QUOTE Berkley

Thank you. I think this is the same situation. I just don't understand how they can grant a CU one year then suddenly say its not habitable.

UNQUOTE

That is not what they are saying. What they were saying is that there would be permitted development to create a habitation. That permission has now been withdrawn - which I think is in any case automatic if the CU is not taken up within 4 years.

There may be good reasons why the permission has been with drawn and will not be renewed. Some examples include availability of water for the commune, change in rules - the habitation may now be too far away from fire hydrant, etc..

QUOTE Berkley

And all this without consulting the owners.

UNQUOTE

You are supposed to know the rules and CUs that are not started on become invalid. Once invalid, other CUs may be granted which consume the commune's resources. If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense and stops developers land grabbing and then doing nothing for years.

QUOTE Berkeley

Do you know if the people you mentioned above ever managed to change the zoning or if they just had to accept the situation

UNQUOTE

Sadly I cannot recall any of the previous persons who have fallen foul ever coming back and reporting that they had been successful. This of course does not mean that they were not. It is easy to ask for help and then forget to come back and say," thanks, the advise worked."

[Loiseau]

To add to possible confusion, the French word "inhabitable' means, in English, "UNinhabitable".

Angela

[berkey]

Than k you all for your advice.  I have sent a few emails today so hope to have more information when I get the replies.  I'll keep you posted

[berkey]

HI

Does anyone know what a PVR is?  This is the reply I got from the mairee.  It seems the PVR ran out in January and the commune

will not pay anything towards the cost of the electricity connection.  This was not a problem though as the buyer

was prepared to pay the full amount, but this is not allowed for some reason

Depuis janvier 2015, les PVR n'existent plus et nous ne pouvons nous

faire rembourser par votre acheteur les 9000 € de frais de raccordement.

Pour une petite commune comme la notre cela

représente une somme énorme que nous ne pouvons pas financer