Chassaing

[quote user="ams"]A friend of ours has just bought an apartment by the sea. The people selling the apartment gave them the name and details of the cleaning lady who cleans the apartment part time. They have done everthing legal and pay all contributions to the French state.   I wonder would it be possible for each of us to become an employee and an employer by cleaning each others respective houses on a part time basis, sufficient to meet the requirements to have access to the CMU.   ams [/quote] Hi ams, Great idea! Good piece of lateral thinking, and providing the work was done, more than no problem it would be business.  You could set up a group where one did the gardening, one did the cleaning and one did the ironing etc. Yes, I'm sure the French authorities would see it as a fiddle if the work wasn't being done.  From my research, it would cost about 235-250 Euros minimum in contributions (not fully reasearched).  As of today, we now pay 270 Euros/month for a similar level of health cover for both of us. The garden and house will still be done, and may I suggest that it is less fuss and paperwork and lump sum payments early in the financial year (so I hear).  One thing that isn't known as yet is the actions Mr Sarkozy is going to take with the French Nationals to claw back all the deficits, to the contributions are likely to rise for them. Lastly, the health issue is only a pert of the immigration/status issue is being  discussed.  No matter how the French Nationals see us, guests or equals, the sick and retired don't deserve the current treatment. 

Hi everyone, We have just changed our status back from 'Illegal Immigrants' to the European Citizen in France as we were yesterday.  During the weekend, we waded through all the 'print offs' of cover and quotes for Health Insurance.  Tough job when we were previously expecting to buy into the French system @ 8%, we are fit and well so it was easy for us, we thought.  This afternoon, we went to our AGF Insurance man armed with plenty of 'competition' to negotiate.  After hearing our tale of woe, he was amazed at the situation we are all in.  He was polite, though he smiled he didn't rub his hands once!  We have had everything (House, car and health) including complimentary insurance with him for 2.5 years.  So we knew he could offer something, but not what. After explaining that AGF wasn't yet in a position to help us as they had been caught 'on the hop', he began to show us other policies that he has trauled the market for, some the same as we had seen and others we hadn't seen.  There were 555 euros/month and 800+/month, and in between.  So after explaining, that we were just early retired teacher and engineer, not oil drillers he then discussed our other options.  Basically, we had to reduce cover; the long and the short of it is we now have cover very simiar the cover that buying into the French NHS would have given us.  For a similar price and hopfully we won't need to use it.  For us, 270 Euros/month (270-120 paid previously = 150/month more for the 19 months before E121). We are covered from today as we had already got complimentary insurance and the deposit was vastly reduced. We had to fill in a full page of declaration questions but we had nothing to hide, and he had our complimentary recors, nothing paid out in 2.5 years. My advice to you people that need to get covered now or soon, see your current Insurance person armed with the best quotes you can find, they will do their best to keep your business. We are now expecting UK to issue E106s to cover every, as life is like that! This post is offered to give some of you normal people like us some help or direction.  Hopefully the situation wll change for the better for the people with pre-conditions, good luck. For any people local to Perigueux feel free to PM for further direction, if required.

This is a cut and paste job from Total France: Dear all, Thank you for all the emails, they will be answered as soon as possible. Just to keep you up to date this article appeared in the Telegraph today http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/01/nexpats101.xml and Mary will be meeting with other MEPs this week to discuss taking this issue further. Please email any question, suggestions or information to [email protected]. Keep campaigning! Best wishes, Abigail Wood Assistant to Mary Honeyball MEP

[quote user="cooperlola"]That's a good idea and I'll do it, but I'm still not sure why it's our job!!!![:@][/quote] It is not our job, but if we don't do it someone could be more than financially hurt, we need to network with the other countries expats around Europe as well as the Spanish Expats.

[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="cooperlola"] Thank you Bubble, that's really helpful. I agree about the notification (or lack of same), shameful.  I have written to the DWP centre for non-residents to suggest that they write to all E106 holders to warn them.  It seems to me that it is the very least they can do. [/quote] Yes, Coops.  Just think of the thousands out there who wouldn't even know what's going to hit them! [/quote] I have emailed, and telephoned all of my address book and given them the website address to this and other expat sites.  They are doing the same for their address book. If we 'ALL' did the same, by the end of the week most people would be informed. All the best,

[quote user="cooperlola"]I wrote to the Embassy again (twice) to ask them to clarify the reference in their standard letter to the "5 year residency" qualification.  I've just had a reply: Hello   Thank you for contacting the Public Enquiries section of the British Embassy, Paris. For further updated information concerning "French policy" applying to all inactive citizens from all EU countries. Please contact:     CPAM - The French Health Service (English language service):  Tel:+33 (0)8 20 90 42 12 CLEISS - (France's helpdesk for international mobility and social security): 11 rue de la tour des Dames 75436 Paris cedex 09 Tel: +33 1 45 26 33 41   http://www.cleiss.fr       Kind regards, British Embassy Press and Communications Section So that was helpful wasn't it? [/quote] Perhaps we 'ALL' need to pay them a visit!

Thanks makfai for putting it so clearly. Yesterday we were 'legal citzens' and today until we get our health insurance later this afternoon we are 'illegal immigrants'. Could someone prove me wrong?  It would make me happier to be proved wrong on this!

We are just about 'lobbied out', no where else to write!  If anyone hasn't yet, here is another point of entry to help. http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=28955

This may help someone, good luck! http://www.special.sudouest.com/article.php3?id_article=3577

There will be thousands of 'life stories' by the end of April 2008. http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=28954

[quote user="cooperlola"]And did you see this? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2558303.ece  [/quote] I guess that should cause a stir, you know.....  what are we doing helping the .......... Best we find out how to 'sign on' in France?

Hi, MPs fear C4 documentary on the cost of immigrants will fuel race hatredhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=484761&in_page_id=1770 All this Immigration stuff is the issue of the moment, I think the health care issue is part of it. Regards.

[quote user="Cat"]I have a good friend who used to hold a high position in the French tax office, and was also assistant mayor of a large french town.  I asked him this very question lunchtime.  His answer was that, for tax purposes, an inactif person was anyone, either temporarily or permanently, not in employment, not self-employed, and not seeking work. He said that this included children, students, mothers caring for children (outside of the statutory maternity leave period), early retired, and also retired people. Interestingly, he also thought that in a few years time, every french citizen would have to fund their health care by private insurance!  This was his personal view, as a socialist, rather than anything based on insider knowledge. [/quote] Thanks Cat,  as I posted 'work makes you free' The slogan 'work makes you free' has been used for centuries in various forms to force the mechanics of 'society.'  It was 'abused' at the gates of the concentration camps. This is what is coming in for the French, they only haven't been told yet.  Remember, the deficits are their debts.  Philosophic implications of individualism and collectivism Both collectivism and individualism rest on certain values and certain assumptions about the nature of man, which is what I want to explore next. Responsibility vs. the safety-net I want to explore is responsibility versus the social safety-net. A primary element of individualism is individual responsibility. Being responsible is being pro-active, making one's choices consciously and carefully, and accepting accountability for everything one does---or fails to do. An integral part of responsibility is productivity. The individualist recognizes that nothing nature gives men is entirely suited to their survival; rather, humans must work to transform their environment to meet their needs. This is the essence of production. The individualist takes responsibility for his own production; he seeks to ``earn his own way,'' to ``pull his own weight.'' Collectivism doesn't disparage responsibility; but ultimately, collectivism does not hold individuals accountable for the choices they make. Failing to save for retirement, having children one can't afford, making bad investments, becoming addicted to drugs or smoking---these actions are called ``social problems'' that ``society'' has to deal with. Thus, collectivists seek to build a social ``safety-net'' to protect individuals from the choices they make. To collectivism, responsibility is only to be expected of the productive, and consists of doing one's part in keeping the social ``safety-net'' in tact. Regarding production, collectivism sees society, not individuals, as the agent of production. As a result, wealth belongs to ``society,'' so collectivists have no trouble dreaming up schemes to redistribute wealth according to their visions of ``social justice.'' This is happening in UK as well.

Hi, Big picture on reforms http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article2532330.ece

[quote user="allanb"] "The Story So Far" (locked post) includes this: [quote]Anybody who has an E106 or an E121 is unaffected. Anybody currently on an E106, will lose all entitlement to state healthcare in France, immediately upon expiry, and will have to take out full private health insurance, to cover them until UK state pensionable age.[/quote] All information is gratefully received, but this looks like a contradiction - is something missing? [/quote] France's budget Unausterity programme Sep 27th 2007 | PARIS From The Economist print edition The new government's first budget is notable mainly for its lack of discipline THE French have grown so used to their new president, Nicolas Sarkozy, breaking with tradition that when he lapses into bad old ways it comes almost as a shock. So it was with the French government's 2008 budget, unveiled on September 26th. It foresees a deficit of €41.7 billion ($58.8 billion), little smaller than in 2007, and worth 2.3% of GDP, scarcely down from 2.4% this year. Worse, this is based on what could well turn out to be overly optimistic forecasts of economic growth. At one time, it had looked as if the government was preparing the ground for serious budgetary tightening. The French state, François Fillon, the prime minister, declared bluntly on September 21st, “was bankrupt”. And some days before that, Christine Lagarde, the finance minister, had hinted at an “austerity programme” for the public services. Yet the reality is a budget that neither cuts public spending, nor reduces government borrowing—and that leaves the total public debt untouched, at some 64% of GDP. Several previously promised cuts have even been scaled back. Mr Sarkozy's campaign pledge not to replace one in two retiring civil servants, for instance, has been trimmed to one in three: some 23,000 jobs will go in 2008, half of them in education. And the government has had to pay for some €9 billion of tax cuts it pushed through parliament in the summer, devised before the recent financial turmoil. The budget assumes GDP growth of between 2% and 2.5% in 2008. Yet official forecasts generally look optimistic. Whereas the French government reckons that growth in 2007 will also be in the 2-2.5% range, both the OECD, a rich-country think-tank, and the European Commission have revised down their forecasts, to 1.8% and 1.9% respectively. The budget will dismay France's euro-area friends. Even before it was disclosed, Jean-Claude Trichet, president of the European Central Bank, noted sternly on French radio that the French state was the highest-spender as a share of GDP, “not only in the euro zone but within the European Union of 27”. Ms Lagarde faced harsh criticism at a recent meeting in Portugal, from other EU finance ministers who were not impressed by France's announcement that it planned to balance its budget not by 2010, but by 2012. The budget increasingly seems to be a source of conflict within the government as well as outside it. When Ms Lagarde started to talk boldly of her austerity programme, she was put in her place by Mr Sarkozy's chief of staff, Claude Guéant. Mr Fillon received similar treatment when he declared that reforms of the country's generous special pension regimes were ready and waiting for a green light from the president. No such reform, retorted the Elysée, was anything like ready. One explanation for these discordant voices could be that neither the prime minister nor the finance minister have as well-honed political instincts as Mr Sarkozy does for how to prepare public opinion for reform. The president tends to argue that change must not be perceived entirely in terms of sacrifice, so an expansionary budget is needed to smooth tough reforms. Another explanation could be that the government is waiting until after next March's municipal elections to tighten the belt. But the third is simply that the Elysée cannot stomach the political impact of a tighter budget squeeze. Does the month of march ring any bells?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity

Hi Mel, Thanks these are better figures than I have seen for 2 people without pre conditions. (Hope I'm not being insensitive)  They should give us something to bargain with when we see our Health Insurance agent on Monday. Have a good weekend Regards

[quote user="chessfou"]I would still like to see clarification of (at least) one thing (and yes I have read and re-read the Sécu web page and yes, maybe this is only straw-clutching): Generally speaking (and especially in the rants which have appeared here, there and on times-online) the French, when they refer to "CMU," really mean "CMU-C." It seems entirely ingrained that CMU-C = CMU in a completely interchangeable way. Many of us were/are/would be concerned with "CMU-B." Do the new regs pertain to CMU-C only or to both parts? Has anyone who has been along to (or phoned) their CPAM this week asked specifically about this? CMU-C - free complémentaire on top of free basic = free healthcare; CMU-B - the small minority who contribute 8% of RFR. [/quote] I cannot confirm your specifics, but during our visit, there was no mention of Free health care only 'Bas' for which we understude we would have had to contribute 8% after a threshold. Either way we were not given access to anything. Next week, we are on the trail for Health Insurance so that we comply. Got help the others that can't get health insurance. I trust someone else will grab the baton next week and confirm what I have written so that the MEPs get a grip.  This might give you a hint of things to come.  Some a little old now: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4608108.stm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/07/wsark07.xml http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/world/20070918-france-immigration-reform-family-reunification-genetic-testing.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,506884,00.html

[quote user="Ron Avery"]Lebois why don't you check your E 106 form, it is unusual for an E 106 to expire other than the end of the year, that is why December 2007 is a key date for many people here.  You will get nowhere with CPAM if you do not even have the English and French versions of the letter from Newcastle telling you that you are no longer entitled to healthcare under an E 106, regime change or not. It could be that you are being excluded due to the rule change but they would not have allowed to join the CMU without that letter had things not changed. [/quote] Thank you Ron, I realise you are only doing your best to help.  But the letter is already on its way from Newcastle and it doesn't matter at this current time if you are not in the CMU and your E106 runs out then you are out and need Heath Insurance. All we talked about during our visit with CPAM was the European Directive!  Wake up people this is real! If you don't believe me, visit your CPAM office next week. Unless the rules change again, which they could, you'll be asking for Health insurance vouchers for Christmas.

[quote user="makfai"][quote user="lebois"]Hi guys, Have tried to get an extension on our E106 from UK on Wednesday, no joy a letter is on the way to confirm it. [/quote] This is where the British Govt could have helped!  If someone was already in the CMU they would have 6 months to sort this out which would allow the insurance providers to set their stalls out.  I agree with Coop's advice that it is not prudent to be without health cover but I would also suggest you put your case to Mary Honeyball MEP to see if she could lobby in UK to get DWP to give you an extension. [/quote] Thanks for the advice, this has been done already during the week. All I'd like to say is, "Wake up this is real!"

Hi guys, We had no letter telling us our cover had stopped it was on our attestation, we went to get CMU affiliation 2 weeks ago and was turned away and asked to return in 2 week, we did. Have tried to get an extension on our E106 from UK on Wednesday, no joy a letter is on the way to confirm it. We spent an hour with our CPAM man yesterday, couldn't get a EH card or CMU affiliation ahead of 30 Sep 2007. He spent most of the time on the phone talking to higher offices. We have our CVs too and they will probably work too but no money will be refunded.  Effectively pay as you go. We accept that we have no health cover. We can't advise anyone either, we have been getting quotes as well. Our meeting with our insurance broker is on Monday the 1st October.  Two weeks ago when we discussed the situation he wasn't aware of it.  However, the situation has changed at least 3 times in 2 week that we know of and could easily change again. We will have a tough time deciding whether to sign up knowing it all could be reversed after all the EU lobbying. This as of yesterday is correct. http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm If you don't believe me, PM me and we can chat on the phone.

[quote user="Cat"][quote user="lebois"]Good letter Coop! I have been plugging away for the last 2 weeks with Times online, only a few posts have made it to 'print'  (I'm not sure if they are on board) Perhaps someone else would have more luck: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article2368553.ece [/quote] Oooh, I've just read some of the comments there.  I really can't say what I'm thinking, or I would have to report myself [6].  Let's just say that one of the posts there, by a Brit who really should know better, got right up my nose.   [/quote] If you are talking about the Estate Agent in Angouleme, I was the same!

[quote user="ali-cat"] I suspect your lobbying the press is more likely to get their attention as in my experience its only when  politicians are faced with negative publicity that they get the finger out.  Can we spin this to include a sensationalist, racist, xenophobic or 'celebrity' element?  That would guarantee some coverage! Mr Cat [/quote] I don't suppose Jeremy Clarkson would be much good then...... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/article2326687.ece

[quote user="Gus Arasput"]That is the annoying thing - profit from other people's misfortunes. I have just filled in an on-line application form with an international broker from that website. They have promised a quote within 24 hours. Having privately shared with you my wife and my details - I will PM you with the quote I receive... [/quote] Good point Gus. What annoys me is there are a load of normal hard working people in France who have paid their dues in UK and France, and now that they need cover or treatment, they are being told to go elsewhere and even though they might not be accepted.   Well done Mary Honeyball MEP you get my vote!

[quote user="tj"]Hi Hope theres a techy out therewho can help with this nightmare. We have the Orange Adsl and telephone package, ie the telephone is connected into the livebox rather than the wall socket, A normal occurence is that when it rains we lose our connection, almost immediately, not for long generally. This time however, it rained hard a couple of days ago, we lost the connection and now cannot make any calls, or receive them of course, but the ADSL is fine, surf the net, email etc etc all fine. I have replaced the cable to box where it enters the house, have updated the livebox with the latest firmware, you name it I've done it, still no joy. Any ideas ? by the way, for those who have the same set up, when the livebox is unplugged and you lift the receiver you get an engaged tone, normally that would change to a dial tone with the box switched on, but now it goes from the engaged tone to nothing. help appreciated [/quote] A friend here had the same, he had to call Orange to get a new LiveBox.  When it arrived, the fault was cured easily by swapping the box.

Good letter Coop! I have been plugging away for the last 2 weeks with Times online, only a few posts have made it to 'print'  (I'm not sure if they are on board) Perhaps someone else would have more luck: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article2368553.ece