Glyn

Baf, Being in the public domain did not stop the French from changing their original announcement at the beginning of September (which stated the changes would not effect existing residents) to the one they made in the middle of September (the one we have been fighting against for the last few months). I do not think we should back off or change our campaign on the basis of what may/may not be in an announcement that may/may not be made in the next few hours/days/weeks/months. (Delete where applicable)[:)]

I think that the problem with the 'wait and see' argument is that on past experience, even if the French authorities 'officially' announced that all existing CMU members are able to remain affiliated they could go back on this at some time in the future. So perhaps those E106 holders should now give up their fight forever and sacrifice themselves for the better good just in case it might perhaps upset the French authorities[;-)] As makfai asked, when would it be deemed to be the right time? Do not forget that at the moment the French authorities have offered NOTHING.

Ron, I am not sure what your point is. The 'and who have the right of residence or permanent residence' bit refers to family members who are not EU nationals.

I think the Connexion article is just a rehash of the rumours that were hinted at about 2 weeks ago and which they have decided to print as fact. As Claire said, I think I would wait until there is some official statement before opening the champagne! And even then I am not sure I would believe them[;-)]

Its a bit scary that she does not know how many people may be affected and who may be returning to the UK, putting more burden on the NHS. But then when the same Government can 'lose' the personal records of  25 million people, what would you expect.[:)]

I am sorry but I would not believe any report that comes out of the British Embassy untill it has been confirmed by the French Authorities. In the past they have not been known for the accuracy of the information that they have published. They were the ones who were insisting the changes dod not apply to existing residents when they were first announced!

Its interesting to note that both John Bowis and Richard Ashworth, Conservative MEP's who have that they either have or wer going to sign, do not yet appear on the list. Perhaps they signed the wrong one[:)]

Well done to all those who spoke on the show. After listening to all the ignorant, bitter and twisted responses I now know why  left the UK[;-)]

John Bowis MEP wrote 'There is of course a human problem, which is why some of us have signed the WD'. However I cannot see his name on the list of those that have signed. Surely he wouldn't be telling a fib would he?[Www]

So its OK for Mr Purvey to have his healthcare paid for by the UK taxpayer as he has reached UK retirement age, but not OK for us to pay into the French system for ours!

BJSLIV, Whilst an 'actif' may pay 30-40% in total cotisations this will be for a lot more benefits than just healthcare. (retirement, invalidity etc). So you are not comparing like for like as an inactif would also be paying social cotisations on their income on top of the 8% for health. In fact self employed contributions for the healthcare element only are around 7.2%. Less than an inactif would pay. Glyn

Bill, It seems strange that you are affiliated to CPAM for your health care as I would have thought that if you are covered under your business registration you would have been affiliated via someone like RSI. However it may be my lack of understanding of the system. Please keep us posted as I am sure there are a lot of people who would like to go down the gite/chambre d'hote route. Glyn

Ian, A siret is also issued if you are self employed (Enterprise Individuelle). When we went to the Chamber Of Commerce they took all our details and then forwarded them onto the various departments that get involved:- Greffe for registration INSEE to issue siret Tax office RAM - This was the caisse we selected for health cover URSSAF for CSG, CRDS RSI for retirement fund. Some of these funds have minimum cotisations that have to be paid regardless of turnover whilst others are purely based on a percentage of turnover. In all the literature I have read I have not seen anything relating to minimum hours that must be worked for self employed people. In fact as anyone who is self employed will tell you the time actually spent 'at the coal face' is often just a small part of the total time spent in running the business, so for those with genuine gite/chambre d'hote business I would not see this as being a problem. This is just based on my experience only and as always I would recommend taking some sort of professional advice. Regards, Glyn  

zeltus, Do you have a siret number. If you do, I cannot see how you cannot be elligible for health care, as long as you pay the ncessary cotisations. I am sure that the Chambre of Commerce would help you. As far as I am aware, and depending on the size of business, you would register as an Enterprise Individuelle. You would then have to pay the following cotisations:- CSG CRDS cotisations d'allocations familiales Retirement Health I am sure there is a way forward to you if you can get the business fully registered, Glyn  

I am sorry but I am finding this difficult to understand. Are we saying that the French government have passed a law defining a requirement for residency regarding private insurance that in practices will be impossible to achieve. If that is a case then surely that must be against some law?

I have just recieved the following from my Conservative MEP. This is the same one who originally informed me that he was not interested. All I can say is keep plugging away, it can work. Thank you for your email. I believe the following will set out my position on this issue and my support of the Written Declaration to which you refer. Healthcare provision for foreign nationals living in other countries is subject to reciprocal agreements drawn up between the individual nation states. Historically the French government has allowed free access to their healthcare system for United Kingdom nationals under such an arrangement drawn up with the British government. However, the Sarkozy administration has now said that, while this arrangement will remain unchanged for all foreign nationals resident in France who are OVER the age of retirement, it shall no longer apply for those foreign nationals living in France who are UNDER the age of retirement. I appreciate that this will cause considerable difficulties to a great many British nationals resident in France and it has, in my view, been singularly badly handled. However, it is not dissimilar to the rule in the UK, where non-British citizens are expected to pay for treatment they have in this country – or to have insurance that covers this. The problem is that most British hospitals and clinics have often not bothered to claim from such patients. Healthcare is specifically not a competence of the European Union and, I am advised, the French Government is acting fully within its legal right. There was a move to incorporate healthcare into the Single Market Services Directive in 2007. Unfortunately this was defeated and therefore, since the French government's proposals do not contravene EU law, the best approach will be to persuade the government of the United Kingdom to revise the Anglo-French bilateral agreement. The old E111, E112 and E121 systems which used to apply have been overtaken by the Judgements of the European Court of Justice and there now needs to be legal certainty and clear guidance on what people’s rights are. The Commission will shortly be coming forward with new and fuller proposals to cover EU citizens who go to another Member State with health needs in future. Right now, however, I and my British colleagues in the European Parliament recognise that this is a contradiction to the principle of freedom of movement and residence throughout the EU and we are keen to do all that we can to help resolve this problem. To that end we are now promoting a motion in the European Parliament which; • Calls on the European Commission to undertake a review of the manner in which member states are operating the principle of healthcare provisions and to ensure that all member states are acting in compliance with their obligations under the Treaties. • Calls on the national governments to uphold the principle of reciprocity of healthcare provision across the European Union, • Expresses concern that, despite having paid their taxes, non residents could be denied state health care provisions and • Recognises that private provision may well be beyond the means of many citizens, especially those with existing conditions or disabilities. Yours Sincerely, Richard Ashworth MEP

Panda, You would actually not be changing from Micro regime to anything as this is just your tax regime. I would imagine all you would have to do is go to the local Chamber of Commerce and say you want to create an Enterprise Individuelle. They will ask you a number of questions including what your business is, what tax regime you want to use (Micro) and when you want the business to start. You pay them a fee to register (about 100 euro) and they send all your details to the various departments. (including one to issue a siret, RSI for pension contributions, URSAFF for social security contributions and chosen caisse for health contributions). You then wait for the bills for the contributions to start dropping on your door step! We have just done this recently for another type of business and the process was relatively straight forward. I would imagine it would be similar for a gite business but please take professional advice first. Regards.

Jazzer, I would not have thought that the tax regime that you are registered under would affect your entitlement to health cover via the RSI. As long as you are registered with the chamber of commerce and pay you cotisations that should be OK. It troubles me when I hear of people who run gites/chambre d'hotes being classed as 'inactif'. Again I would of thought that as long as you register with the CCI etc you should be covered. I would think that the French would be treading on even more dangerous ground with the EU if they were to disregard certain types of employment/ self employment. Glyn

The following link would seem to confirm that you do not pay CSG on UK Pensions if you are not in the French Health System:- http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/social-security#7.6    

Conservatives Abroad have finally woken up Please go to to http://www.conservativesabroad.org/blog/?p=218 where they want to hear from anybody who has been affected by the changes. Glyn

So are they now saying that EU 'inactifs' cannot access the CMU whislt non EU 'inactifs' can? If so, does anyone have access to the official documents that state this is the case?

The article on the Connexion may be 'latest news' but as far as I can make out it is just a reprint of what was printed in their November edition. Bearing in mind this must have gone to press at least a week ago and a lot of the quotes are from correspondence dated early October I am not sure it actually confirms much. Glyn

Mr Leggett wouldn't want to scare people off from moving to France would he. It might be bad for his estate agency business[:)]

Clair, I am not sure what this would achieve apart from having a UK limited company. To obtain a carte vitale you would surely still have to join a caisse and pay the requisite contributions. Glyn

I think these replies just demonstrate the ignorance of some of our elected representatives.