ernie

[quote user="lindal1000"]If you had read my above post you will see that I did briefly explain..and I'm still waiting for your suggestions as to what the next step is. Every need to reply please.[/quote] Firstly – You make yet another assumption, I did read what you wrote, it gave me yet another good laugh. I repeat, making assumptions is never a brilliant idea and is often offensive. Secondly - "Every need to reply please" - What claptrap. There is absolutely no need to reply, above all, to ungrammatical, difficult to understand comments. Who the heck are you to tell me what to do ? Off your pedestal Madam, please. I reply merely to point out you defo did not explain, you just wasted bandwidth. Thirdly and finally - If you actually think anyone intelligent (apart from your good self) is interested in my notional suggestions of how to solve the "crisis", I am staggered. You actually believe thereby I have all the facts ? Look, I have been at pains to point out the need for facts before proposing or deciding anything. I do not know, but I do have strong principles about the whole EU mess, based on verifiable facts and personal experience. An opinion unsupported by facts is worthless., another waste of bandwidth In any case, when the going gets personal, I get going, so, having had enough, I’m outa here.

[quote user="chessie"]Oh dear Ernie - you're living dangerously now. I tried to give out similar facts - got accused of being a rascist - and of taking my facts from Facebook. I couldn't be bothered to reply - had I done so - I would have said that the facts - very similar to yours - were taken from a Telegraph article. Also taken from eu statistics - but some people think if such an article is posted on Facebook - then that's where its been picked up - and it's all lies simply because it's on Facebook - weird and childish. But all those incidents did happen. You will not convince the losers, the little snowflakes, the anglo-phobic cult believers. Still in a state of shock because the people have spoken. Interesting article in the Guardian today as well; looking at Swindon, the home of F1 engineering, and other high-tech firms, as well as Nationwide - and why the majority voted Brexit. Not at all the 'uneducated blah blah rubbish insults' - but intelligent, educated, professional people - rather gives the lie to the usual losers comments about Brexit voters. Do please read. I'd better go now - or I shall be called something or other nasty and abusive again. [/quote] Correct chessie, the woebegone, reflex cry of “Racist !” means “How dare you confuse me with facts, you honest person you, you … you …” Why is there so much confusion right now ? It is everywhere and does none of us good. Let’s have a little “think” about facts, about objective truth, shall we ? No specious argument can hold up against a fact (contra factum non fit argumentum). Ever. It seems a great majority of people prefer to believe the comfortable lie rather than the uncomfortable truth, ie - the simple explanation - even if it’s false instead of complicated reality. Add to that there is a certain framework, a boundary, a distinction between a truth and a lie, which must neither be overstepped nor manipulated. Briefly : if the sun is yellow and TV News says it is green, no one will believe the TV News. But, if TV News says the Sun is orange, possibly even red, that is within the realm of the possible for the man-in-the-street newspaper reader, like me. That is the tricky thing about manipulation. In fact, anyone can see that the sun is orange, and … also red … at sunset. But when we say that the sun is yellow, we mean the colour of the sun as it appears to us in daytime, when the sun is shining is yellow. The Sun is a daytime thing. So, when the “Preachers” say it is orange and red, we know they are also right and we know we cannot say they are absolutely wrong. Solution : keep a safe distance from the truth manipulators. (Danke Frau Seitz). Voltaire warns : “If you want to know who is ruling you, you must only discover whom you may not criticize.” Eric Blair (George Orwell) said : "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." Ernie says Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[quote user="lindal1000"]It's not true Ernie.. but actually it doesn't really matter now because we are way past how people might vote. Just have to find a way to stop the UK economy from going into free fall[/quote] "It's not true" What on earth can you mean ? That is a rhetorical question, BTW. No need to reply, please.

[quote user="Debra"]Are they really going to do it? So many questions and trying to remember the advice not to panic. [/quote] Don't panic Debra, please, but try to bear in mind as many of the factors as you can - I can't. Just had this interesting piece forwarded to me : As usual, there is always more than one view on any issue. Received this in an email & obviously have no idea of its bona fides; but interesting ... If this is true, or even just perceived so by the majority of voters, one can easily comprehend why Brexit actually happened ---Quote--- BREXIT Ladies & gents: read this, so you understand why the UK had no other choice but to leave the EU. Maybe it will enlighten you. The EU was killing the UK .... they barely got out of this Internationalist Cabal in time. Upon funding through enticing EU grants/loans : * Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011. * Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013. * Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. * Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia. * British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN rather than Wales, using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant. * Dyson gone to Malaysia. * Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METALBOX), gone to Poland, once employed 1,200. * M&S manufacturing gone to far east. * Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with all the patents. * Gillette gone to eastern Europe. * Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany. * Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone. * Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands. * Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy. * ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs * Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina, who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year. * JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. * UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. * Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. * Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. * The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. * Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. * 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU. * The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. * Cameron's campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. * The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK. * Raleigh UK are probably going to move to the Netherlands too, as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me just one major technology company still running in the UK. Now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians in the UK any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, you most probably: 1) haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2) haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy interfering in and tearing your business down. 3) don't think it really matters.

[quote user="chessie"]No different to ALL political party 'promises' and 'manifesto commitments' then.   Remember student fees - LimpyDumbos that one wasn't it ?  Blairs' promise that any 'constitutional changes to the UK would go to a Referendum'; how come the Lisbon Treaty didn't go to a Referendum. They are ALL crooks, l---rs - and I don't believe much of what they say.   But at least in the UK if they really tell huge stonking 'lies' to us - we can kick them out.   As the LibDems know to their cost.   As Churchill said - 'Democracy isn't perfect - until you look at the alternatives'. McMillan had it right 'Circumstances, dear boy - circumstances'. With all the polls running the way they were, I think the 'Leave' side have been caught on the back-foot;  looking at BJ, Mr G and Mr F the morning after there did seem to be a bit of 'crumbs - now we've done it...' look about them. I doubt also that anyone really thought that the european 'elites', whom we've bailed out through the ecb, and the imf would really turn and kick over the cash machine quite so nastily.    It appears that the 'elites' Merkel included are panicked, they really want to punish the UK for having had the courage to say 'The eu has gone wrong, it is a disaster, we're divorcing' - and losers always turn nasty, don't they ? As for Scotland - I didn't realise that they hated the English so much;  it was Scotland that ran out of money and wanted the 'Union' - at least that what's my history books told me.   But the eu don't seem to have been very welcoming to the Scots either.   I do wish they'd all take a few days off, time to recoup and think - and that goes for the eu lot as well - wish they'd all take a deep breath before sounding off and saying things that they will or should regret in future.   Rather telling that the first meeting of the 'elites' after the UK referendum was with the 6 - note that just the 6 - financial eu bods;  aren't there other countries involved in the eu as well ? [/quote] Some good stuff there chessie. Thanks, now I'm off to the Land of Nod.

[quote user="chessie"]The tax and welfare harmonisation is there in the 5 Presidents Report - and other reports - would suggest you check it out. There was a report, and damnation but didn't keep the link - probably Guardian piece - which in the last week DID talk about a separate eu tax;  not just the Guardian but Telegraph and FT as well. And of course, there's nothing wrong about us being tracked (after all we're not the Sir Phillip Greens of this world are we?) - but you can follow the thinking can't you.   Anyway, this has been passed by the Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee for a 'European Taxpayer Identification Number' to keep track of every eu citizen.    And your UK NI number is now a European TIN - check it; same as France.    Right; fine; not a problem - until you think through the implications...because HMRC now regard every UK citizen as owing them XXX £s unless you can prove you only owe X £s.  French system ?  And the tax and welfare harmonisation is not new;  again check out Guardian pages;  and the 'harmonisation' - averaging out - including Bulgaria, Roumania, Albania, Macedonia..... you can see where that one will go. Anyway, I work on the principle that I don't trust any of them, not one, none of them at all;  in that immortal phrase - 'I am NOT a number.!!' - just don't like the 'feel' of it - another method of control. If the £ goes down - doesn't that make exports - to the rest of the world - cheaper ?   And any eu imposed tariffs - well two can play at that game surely ? We just need grown up reasonable sensible people in charge;  have we got that in the UK - nope;  have we got that in the eu - nope;  too much bad feeling both sides.  (Civil servants probably OK but they've been inculcated with 'the eu wants/demands/has banned.....' and might not able to think independently any more). Possibly we should bring in experienced trade negotiators from Canada, Australia and New Zealand - under our new points system - as being skilled, need, professional, qualified people. [/quote] chessie - back on line I am, unusually. May I take a huge chance and agree with all*** you post here ? The "chance" part (which may cause temporary merriment to some) is because I am informed posts have been removed. I make no complaint, not worth it, but I do admit I would rather like to know which ones. Knowledge is strength ! *** Para 5 especially.

[quote user="cajal"] Nigel Farrage should be congratulated for ensuring democracy is still the bedrock of the British way of life and B Johnson/ T May/ M Gove (I think G Osborne can be ruled out) must negotiate strong and hard to ensure the best possible withdrawl terms from the EU. regards cajal [/quote] Yes, Yes, Yes. Without the ceaseless efforts of Nigel Farage, the referendum would not have been called. David Cameron used it attempting to make political profit, reluctantly, but it happened and it's proven, to me anyway, the need for the referendum is transparently clear. Now for the next steps - slowly, steadily and wisely. BTW, my guess is Nigel Farage will/would be delighted to see the back of the Scots, in particular those loathsome Scottish louts who attacked him with his family. Have we all forgotten what Scottish democracy can be like when it turns nasty ?

[quote user="Judith"]The blind leading the halt and lame, or VV.  ???? Whichever way, I'm already fed up of the follow-on from the debacle of the campaign.  And hardly a decisive vote - just about split down the middle, now that is why, as I understand it, in Switzerland, who could be considered to know how to run a referendum campaign since they run a fair few, there should (yes, I use should, intentionally) always be a fixed percentage of votes for below which the referendum does not pass.  75% one way or the other seems to be a good figure ... anything below that seems completely inconclusive and will lead to problems later on. So the UK is split down the middle on this issue, who'd want to be there when the s***t hits the fan. [/quote] OK, Let’s change the rules for, say, basketball too. A win of 59 points to 58 points is “hardly decisive” either. So let’s change the rules and make the teams play again, after a suitable period, naturally. Why not ? Like, I mean, you know what I’m saying, at the end of the day, it’s not as if one came in front of the other, is it ? We must apply this interesting viewpoint to horse and greyhound racing as well. Oh Yes – and Cricket ..

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Exactly Mr Chancer Exciting times ahead. Don't dwell on the negatives think of the positives both for France and the UK. I do hope though that a certain 'place elsewhere' (as you put it) goes out of business along with the charmless idiots that run the show. That would be a big positive.[/quote] Oui, mille fois Oui.

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"][quote user="chessie"]Demand for French housing could increase by 400% !!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that's a great thought - means the value of our homes could increase by ginormous amount !!!!!!!!!! [/quote] ummmm.....in Paris and other French cities yes, the Costa del Dordogne........not so much. Talking of which, all the those banks and financial institutions threatening to move their operations and staff to Paris need have a reality check. Where exactly are their staff going to live ? The shortage of housing in Paris is ridiculous and it is not going to improve in the short term. I am guessing they will stay in the UK.[/quote] Exactly, it is not difficult to understand your point, but it is difficult to explain it away or to ignore it. One of so many.

Chancer - Oh almost forgot the pound crashing to a 30 year low against the dollar, and against all other world currencies. Dead right Chancer. Anyone who is surprised at large currency variations - either way - has learnt a valuable lesson, perhaps.

[quote user="Tancrède"][quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Nevertheless, the worst fear of Brexit was always going to be Scotland thinking of breaking away from the UK.[/quote]I cast my vote guided solely by my principles as a libertarian and democrat.  But I have to admit that the possibility of the secession of Scotland from the Union did cross my mind as an unintended but beneficial consequence. [/quote] Tancrède, I'll probably go along with that, bearing in mind the greatest good for the greatest number (something like that) if the Scots truly want to go it alone, then off ye must go. And the best of (ex-) British to ye all. Just remember the bit about joining the EU requires joining the Euro as well and, maybe check the latest salvo in the oil-price war, it may be relevant. Yon wee lassie forgot about those factors for "her" referendum, it would appear. The banks will do well, as per normal, with their Exchange booths alongside a new Hadrian's wall.

Agree with most of that, but I'm not looking for an argument anyway. What flabbergasts me is the number of feckless voters now whining they didn't understand the importance of/issues etc of the Referendum - but voted anyway ? "Sir, I didn't read the question properly - please let me write the exam again"). To ask for another referendum because you made a mistake with your vote in the previous one, or do not approve of the result is ludicrous, even if the whole populations of Antarctica and the Vatican too, disagree with me. lol. Agreed, it is the strict modus operandi of the EU/EC hegemony to keep voting until the required result is obtained, just ask Irish, French, Danish and Irish voters why they had two bites at the bitter EU cherry.

Please see my correction above. Thanks.

" Yesterday, 15:40 chessie is not online. Last active: 26/05/2016 21:04:16 chessie " Yesterday, 15:40 chessie is not online. Last active: 26/05/2016 21:04:16 chessie ... ... ... Quote " As for NZ lamb - heard of quotas. And totally as a side-bar - why do you think that NZ and Oz are now responsible for the cruelty and disgusting obscene export of live animals to certain Muslim countries ? Any of you heard or know about the disgusting and appalling animal abuse that takes place?; partly the UK's responsibility because, again, part of the 'signing away of our Commonwealth ties' - was the non-importation of frozen meat from NZ and Oz." There “You can” etc, I fixed it for you. Sorry I pressed the wrong button and perplexed you. Maybe you will experience the great understanding thingie. But your sweet little "dig" was on the button. Yes Ma'am, I am prejudiced, very much as a matter of fact and obvious (in your case) interest. I picked up chessie’s point of the case of cruel and thoroughly nasty torturing of animals and I defo do not want to support this barbaric practice, nor be obliged to buy meat which is slaughtered in this way. I hope you watched the vids, they are illuminating, few of us venture into killing places I’d say. But I understand if you couldn't face it, I did warn. Neither do I do I like, not one tiny little bit, the Jewish slaughter technique, but the Jews do not force it on other people. It’s a complex and vexing question, but the basic cause is not what you imply here “Like so many other things...just how far up the agenda, assuming it ever makes it onto the agenda in the first place, do you think that sort of thing will be? “ Honestly, that comes over as incomprehensible and tendentious nonsense, you seem to be out of your ground. It reminds me of Cameron warning UK voters not to vote leave as it might start WWIII. How’s that going I ask myself ? ...

chessie - Are you aware of halal slaughtering in the UK ? Do you know how much halal meat is offered fro sale in non-halal retail outlets ? You might be surprised. If you have a strong stomach, take a look at some secret videos made by courageous people : WARNING - it's bad. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shopping-and-consumer-news/11384505/Secret-halal-slaughterhouse-film-reveals-horrific-animal-abuse.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603360/Horror-halal-slaughterhouse-Shocking-undercover-film-shows-needless-suffering-livestock-butchered-without-stunned-first.html They are not enjoyable, sometimes, the Truth is like that.

So, idun, you do not like Herr Juncker ? But he is such a well-mannered and well- behaved president, is he not ? Observing the proprieties and so on ? Check this vid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU Over 1 mill have seen it - and me twice.

Lots of good stuff there idun, I'm right with you. Truth is, nobody knows. So far, I haven't seen a guess (most of the current stuff is guessing in any case, is it not ?) about the situation of the excelent French workers in the UK (not sure - 300, 000/400,000 ?) I believe the chances of them being "required to leave" are equal to the number of UK passport holders resident in France notionally being “required to leave” in the opposite direction. In the extremely unlikely event of such a catastrophic situation, France would be a massive loser, do the numbers. It’s not a zero-sum game by many means. Of course there will be bumps and bangs, as well as some heavy collisions, but that happens all the time. For me, the main and vital point is that the UK will be able to guide and direct and control its own future, not have to sit and suffer being told what to do by 2nd and 3rd tier states (financially and commercially, think Romania, Latvia, Slovenia, Slovakia). The EU performance drops every single year, no FTAs with the big boys (USA, China, Russia) even though they exist with Seychelles and … The Faroe Islands ... Wow ! Several EU states are in imminent danger of collapsing, yet the only solution offered is “ever closer union”. Non Merci, Nein Danke etc is what the British people have said. Here endeth the lesson for today.

[quote user="Cathar Tours"]I can see a train in the tunnel with a big bright light on the front called Scotland and the words devolution referendum on the side. From what I can make of the 'graphics' all of Scotland voted to remain. As to how things will go this simulation gives a bit of an idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKOr_RhdyA There is a part two as well. [/quote] Your take on the “Scottish Express” is interesting. Two matters spring to mind, the price of oil and the fact that a certain young lassie is much better known now than when she was a year or so ago (don’t do dates all that well). Her performance on the TV debate (I should have said argument) I saw was lamentable and extremely biased. These factors may alter her expectations if Scotland is allowed to have yet another referendum so soon after the preceding one. Although it is SOP for the EU/EC crowd (think France, Netherlands, Ireland) to make “democratic” states keep voting until the democracies vote as they are told. The result may well be different. Just my opinion.

Hi Judith, Try this : - left click - highlight - right click - move cursor to the item - left click - Voilà.

Thanks Woolly, Well posted. There is absolutely NOTHING off limits to the persons and their controllers/organisers/supporters who carry out these unbelievably and increasingly savage attacks. Nothing whatsoever. Remember though : It also has absolutely nothing whatever, in any manner, way shape or form to do with Protestantism, Catholicism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Methodism, Presbyterianism, Mormonism, not even JW-ism, atheism, agnosticism, nothing at all, nothing. Did I leave anything out ? Getting older every single day.

Agreed

Disregard, sorry, busy day.

Very interesting stuff. Many thanks for that W B :). Isn't it strange how some people are very, very quick to proclaim "liberal" principles (“Free Speech”, “Respect” and so) non ad infinitum, but when it gets down to it, they are just working off a hangover or summat, nothing to do with principles. Well do I remember my own student days, when the world was there to be taken by those interested enough to do it. Me - I didn’t do it (the world remains grateful). Incidentally, has anyone read the El Khomri law particulars ? Especially the bit about compelling employers to provide certain facilities ? I durst not say more …

[quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"]if you click on the thread there should be 3 buttons at the top, print, search and notify. just click the notify. however, if you reply to a message then you need to un-select the c no idea why you get 2 tho [/quote] Hi Honeysuckle, Please tell me where I find those three buttons, I don't seem to have this feature, nor the "notify" option. Almost certainly something wrong on my part. Thanks from ernie.