Swissie

bonjour - heureuse de savoir que ton bide va mieux Frenchie. Ici il fait tr`rs chaud et maginifique - j'attends des amis pour un BBQ-et je fais un petit tour ici en attendant que le fond de la cuisine sèche! Bonne journée 

About equality: there are 8300 Catholic schools in France and 256 Jewish schools for a Jewish population of around 600.000 and 4 Islamic schools for a population of about 5 mio. Most Muslims in France do not wear a burqua, do not wish to wear or to make wear, a burqua.

Is it OK for some Christians to refuse medical treatment/surgery/transfusion for their children? Many in the medical profession have been fighting against the practice of circumcision of boys- which is required by both Islam and Judaism. It is a surgical procedure which is not without risks, anaesthsia (you hope in the West) and risk of infection- this very high in poorer countries, where Aids is prevalent. It does result in some boys being traumatised, both physically and psychologically - and some men to later suffer psychological problems and under or over sensitivity, resulting in sexual problems. In the third world it is often done in the most dreadful conditions. But back to the issue - will a ban empower and free girls, or lock them out of education and the chance to become integrated. And does integration mean losing your roots and tradition. Is it possible to be totally and fully integrated, and yet different/ Back to the question of private (publically funded) Catholic schools in France under the Principle of Laicité?

Will you send it to those SPAs that do not sterilize?

As most moving traffic is going the other way - and lorries coming back empty- I suppose you could barter for a very good rate from a UK company. We used Bardies of Leicester, part of the Britannia group - we used a whole lorry for our big move - but Mr Bardwa (he is very friendly, helpful and knowledgeable) explained they often do organise sharing. The good thing about using a big group like Britannia, but with individual local members, is that they can coordinate all the members moves for optimum efficiency and cost.

Of course I would prefer the burqa not to be used, although I've never felt there was a problem with wearing a scarf. I have done some French Googling today- and found some really interesting stuff. You talk about ALL schools, Frenchie, but you seem to forget that there are many many private Catholic schools - mainly funded by the State. How can this be tolerated under the Principe de laicité? Strangely enough, those schools have become a refuge for Muslim girls, as they are usually single sex, and their faith is tolerated and respected there- and many allow them to wear traditional clothing, scarf or burqa. About 10% of girls in Catholic schools are now Muslim. In my last school - I had a very good relationship with some of my Muslim 6th formers. None wore the burqa, but about 50% wore a scarf and modest clothing. They told me that they felt so sorry for the English girls from the local estates - who were dressed like tarts to please the boys. They felt those girls were oppressed and badly used - were constantly pressured by TV and magazines, to be slim, pretty, dress this way or that,  have such and such haircut, nails, etc., to drink, smoke and have sex. The Muslim girls actually felt empowered by being modest- they could concentrate on school work and doing their very best (and they did achieve incredibly, some with Bengali illiterate parents).  When I was last in Leicester a few weeks ago, I bumped into one of them in town. She looked beautiful, still wearing a scarf, but in jeans and a lacy cotton top- with light make up. She was blooming - we went for coffee and she told me she was a social worker, working with the elderly asian community. Had she been stopped from wearing a scarf, she probably would have left school and be married off.  As it happens, she is managing to achieve the balance, between being respectful of her faitth and tradition, AND being absolutely and totally well integrated. It is possible - especially if you leave well alone with superficial things like that. Make female circumcision (and male) totally illegal (unless medically required for males for a specific problem) - absolutely and no compromise.

What does 'equality' mean - not easy to define. I certainly know many many young French people of Arab origin who would just love to have 'equality' - but they are defo not getting it.

Thanks David - passed the info on and asked for an up-date. Not in contact personally - just posted it a request made by a friend on another forum. Merci

Bravo Mick - super  cool!

see them on   thefranceforum.net

Any video or recording?

1 non sterilised cat will produce about 12 kittens a year - which if not sterilised will produce    1 million cats in 10 years.

Thanks, passed the info to Blaze. Everything crossed.

Jackie, will pass the info on - thanks. I am not on Anglo-info, but if anybody is - could they check this up PLEASE. Merci.

You know Hoddy that I taught in a small town very near you, where there are 3 secondary school - 1 Catholic, 1 Grammar private and 1 Comprehensive- of course, the first 2 creamed off - and we in the Comprehensive were left with the rest, many Bengali students from very poor homes, kids from the local sink estates - and some from academic staff at the University. Had we stopped the Bengali girls from wearing a scarf (and they were mostly really hard working and terribly keen to do well)- they would have not come to school at all. By giving them a good education was the best way to help them. The Islamic school mentioned in the article, is practically opposite a very traditional CofE Church. Many parents in that area often used the CofE school as a free 'prep' school, before sending them to the Private sector at 11. The school had CofE style assemblies and the Curriculum was taught from a definitely christian point of view. I know many parents who did all the "Christening and going to the local Church + fund raising, etc' palava, despite being totally agnostic/atheist,in order to get kids in that school. Many very good friends and colleagues. The other primary school took kids from poor UK homes, and the Asian kids + (as above) kids from university staff. The Muslim parents were therefore able to say ' what is good for the goose...' as they did not want their children to be with kids from difficult homes with values they definitely did not share.

Indeed, those blazers and caps, sheer cruelty. IMHO there should be NO religious schools - the only reason the UK has had to accept Creationist and Islamic schools, is because many British want to segregate their students in CofE or Catholic schools. Get rid of the lot of them - and then also say no to fundamentalist Christian or indeed Islamic schools. Why is endoctrination by one faith accepted, and not from another?

Foal in Cote d'Armor in urgent need of a nursing mum (its mum had died of colic). PLEASE please talk to any friends with horses who might be able to help.

No I would not be happy to wear a Burka, nor to shave my Head. And in my generation and my parents', would not have been happy to be the chosen one in the family to become a Priest or a Nun, or to have an arranged marriage (very frequent amongst Catholics until recently, here in Switzerland where there were a minority - no longer thanks to Italian, Spanish and Portugese immigration post war). This is not the point - and I shall say this for the very last time - the point is: will banning the Burqa makes things worse, both for the women involved, and for French society at large? I do believe that it is actually possible to integrate fully and be 'different' - having lived and taught in Leicester for over 30 years - I have known so many such cases, among my students, neighbours, friends and colleagues.  I agree, the burqa makes that very difficult. But again, this is NOT the point here, for me. It actually makes me very cross when people use a wrong to excuse another wrong - as 2 wrongs very rarely make a right. However- it could be said that there are many British people in France who do not even speak the language- and expect their vets, solicitors, doctors, plumbers to speak English- even after years and years in the country.

Graprefruit should not be taken with statins - and I was warned when I was first prescribed it.

chessie - there are almost as many ways to be a Muslim and interpret the scriptures, as there ways of being Christian - In my last school I had hamish girls who wore a scarf and long skirts and white socks. Do you really feel that we have the right to impose on Christians or Muslims how and what to believe? Creatinonists, Evangelical, Jehovahs witnesses, could somebody please tell me how many different Christian Churches/sects are in existence. Even Anglican Church goes from sublime to ridiculous - some believing women are incapable of being priests, some that homosexuality is an abomination, some that the resurrection was symbolical. Catholics who believe that the bread and wine do literally turn into the body of Christ. But that is not the issue here - for me the question is 'will banning the Burqa help or hinder integration' - and for me the answer is that it will very probably make things worse.

And you know Frenchie that I respect you very much and really value your friendship - so I hope we will agree to disagree. I hate the Burka and all it represents too - but as I've said, banning it will only entrench and radicalise- and make things worse, I feel.

so why make matters worse - why inflame the situation further? Why give the extremists a very good excuse? It will solve nothing - au contraire.

Gluestick, would banning the burka solve any of the problems you raised or is it likely to make things worse?

Ridiculous comparisons rarely help- and as said before, 2 wrongs don't make a right. What would banning the Burka achieve- really? Would it improve the protection of those women who are 'oppressed' (I know many many French women who are 'oppressed' - in many different ways BTW). Quite the opposite- as some will be 'locked in' if they cannot go out without being veiled, and those who choose to wear it (and I know quite a few, having worked in Leicester for a very long time) will become further radicalised. It would solve absolutely nothing, and make things much worse.

Coops, I've wanted to say that ever since this thread started - and I am very glad you did.