Russethouse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The PM has just announced that there will be no change to the rules re WFA so that theory of yours is out the window. For now !At present Cameron will say whatever, to get votes.....It may be illegal now, but it wasn't a couple of weeks ago;-)The funny thing is that people I work with often say I'm too fair....but I still feel that of all the inequalities there are in the UK this is a pretty low priority....if we had plenty of money, all well and good, but we don't....Library's may close, paediatric coronary units may close, respite care will be cut but don't worry, people who have chosen to live elsewhere will get their benefit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 In the great scheme of things do you not think that cutting tax evasion and huge salaries and bonuses in the City might do more to save hospitals and libraries than stopping a few pensioners from getting their winter fuel allowance? As I said before, WFA to people abroad is less than 1% of the total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 You are right Emily, I do think that there are huge economies to be made in other areas ... It irks me, more than somewhat that the likes of Sir Philip Green and Sir Richard Branson pay so little in tax, but of course they head up huge enterprises who employ a lot of people who do pay tax...so I try to be moderate, but it goes against the grainThere must be a way to curb some of this tax avoidance without making the UK totally unattractive to the rich or investorsIf people who live elsewhere in Europe can get equal treatment, so should everyone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Do we actually know how much tax Philip Green or Richard Branson actually pay as this information is officially confidential. Each individual's tax affairs are kept private in the UK. It might be better if this inforamtion was made a matter of public record as it is in Sweden, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tancrède Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"]Each individual's tax affairs are kept private in the UK. It might be better if this information was made a matter of public record as it is in Sweden,[/quote]But if we really wish to tap that rich seam of envy and splenetic denunciation - and I am sure it would be an entertaining spectacle - surely we should take steps to publicize each individual's allocation of benefits too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"]Do we actually know how much tax Philip Green or Richard Branson actually pay as this information is officially confidential. Each individual's tax affairs are kept private in the UK. It might be better if this inforamtion was made a matter of public record as it is in Sweden,[/quote]You are right, we don't know, but my guess would be that in Sir Philip Greens case, it's worth while his wife being the major shareholder and living in Monaco.... Unless you know differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Rabbie"]Do we actually know how much tax Philip Green or Richard Branson actually pay as this information is officially confidential. Each individual's tax affairs are kept private in the UK. It might be better if this inforamtion was made a matter of public record as it is in Sweden,[/quote] You are right, we don't know, but my guess would be that in Sir Philip Greens case, it's worth while his wife being the major shareholder and living in Monaco.... Unless you know differently?[/quote]No I don't know and I think it would be better if we did. I suspect that the public outcry would force governments to take positive action against people not paying theit share of taxes. I can see no objection to income earned in the UK being taxed in the UK regardless of where the person lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote user="idun"] Is it really only the UK who has to keep on paying out and paying out when people leave? And people fighting for them to do so and calling it illegal to be not treat as residents, when they do not want to be residents. [/quote] Sorry Idun you have missed the point. No one is claiming to be resident, they are claiming to be (fully paid up) citzens - and that is something the French do really understand. And I can say this as one who will not receive the payment under any rules and so has no personal vested interest. Imagine what would have been the reaction if instead of/as well as saying anyone who leaves the shores of the UK to the European Group we are a member of does not get it. They also said anyone who leaves Scotland for the warmer climbs of England or Wales will no get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Yes, french people under being fully paid up, but they also understand solidarity on so many levels. And some of it is a darned good thing too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Rabbie"]Do we actually know how much tax Philip Green or Richard Branson actually pay as this information is officially confidential. Each individual's tax affairs are kept private in the UK. It might be better if this inforamtion was made a matter of public record as it is in Sweden,[/quote] You are right, we don't know, but my guess would be that in Sir Philip Greens case, it's worth while his wife being the major shareholder and living in Monaco.... Unless you know differently?[/quote]No I don't know and I think it would be better if we did. I suspect that the public outcry would force governments to take positive action against people not paying theit share of taxes. I can see no objection to income earned in the UK being taxed in the UK regardless of where the person lives.[/quote]But we'd still like to attract foreign investment ....that's a conundrum......As for being envious, no, I'm not envious of either Sir PG or Sir RB , I'd just like the squeezed middle to stop being quite so squeezed (that's not to say that if I won the lottery I couldn't think of many ways to spend the money, I could, couldn't we all?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Rabbie"]Do we actually know how much tax Philip Green or Richard Branson actually pay as this information is officially confidential. Each individual's tax affairs are kept private in the UK. It might be better if this inforamtion was made a matter of public record as it is in Sweden,[/quote] You are right, we don't know, but my guess would be that in Sir Philip Greens case, it's worth while his wife being the major shareholder and living in Monaco.... Unless you know differently?[/quote]No I don't know and I think it would be better if we did. I suspect that the public outcry would force governments to take positive action against people not paying theit share of taxes. I can see no objection to income earned in the UK being taxed in the UK regardless of where the person lives.[/quote] But we'd still like to attract foreign investment ....that's a conundrum...... As for being envious, no, I'm not envious of either Sir PG or Sir RB , I'd just like the squeezed middle to stop being quite so squeezed (that's not to say that if I won the lottery I couldn't think of many ways to spend the money, I could, couldn't we all?)[/quote]For me it's not a question of envy. I don't care how much they earn provided they do it honestly and pay their fair share of tax.To me it is just as wrong to have clever tax avoidance as to be a benefits cheat. Let's have an open honest system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Returning to the subject and as a point of information The Direct Govt website stated that the claim form will be available from August or can be downloaded,giving a link to the claim form.The claim form on this link is in fact not the correct claim form as the claim form relevant to those of us who are now able to claim, due to the UK Government having acted illegally in the past by denying us the allowance, js still in the process of being constructed but should be available in a few weeks time. One can however use the existing form on the link but ignore the bits about claiming on Pg 5 of the form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Returning to the subject and as a point of information The Direct Govt website stated that the claim form will be available from August or can be downloaded,giving a link to the claim form.The claim form on this link is in fact not the correct claim form as the claim form relevant to those of us who are now able to claim, due to the UK Government having acted illegally in the past by denying us the allowance, js still in the process of being constructed but should be available in a few weeks time. One can however use the existing form on the link but ignore the bits about claiming on Pg 5 of the form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thanks BaF, very useful. Will wait for August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 That explains our disagreement.You gave a link to the wrong form and then said that my interpretation of it (quoting it accurately) was rubbish.Perhaps your phone call elicited a different interpretation, but as it is ephemeral and impossible to verify I would prefer to wait for the correct form before being insulted again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Get over it Norman, you were wrong.I did not give a link to the wrong form I gave a link to a form which the UK Govt had published .You saidAs I posted above those who moved to France before becoming eligible for WFA will still not be eligible.That is rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Explain why it is 'rubbish'You may disagree, but this is still unknown territoryYou still have avoided an explanation of the phrasePart 3Note –you must have acquired entitlement to a Winter Fuel Paymentinthe UK in order to qualify for a Winter Fuel Payment withinanotherEEA country.I would suggest that the only thing that is rubbish in this thread is your link to a site which you have had to admit gives false information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 I believe the point is that I gave correct information (not the information on the website) but you continue to insist that I am wrong.So be it ,but I am the one who has spoken with the horse.For the last time If one left the UK for an EU country prior to becoming entitled to the WFA one can now ,due to an EU ruling be entitled to the allowance. . The cut off date is 1998.If one left the UK prior to that date one is not entitled to the allowance.Be a pedant if you wish but I am not going to keep repeating myself. Over and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 For those who don't need the WFA you can donate to http://www.communityfoundations.org.uk/about/survivingwinter/ who will no doubt run a campaign for 2012/2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brown Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 BF, The horse that I spoke to said I would not get it because I was "not ordinarily resident in the UK" so there's still confusion over itThe reason the judgement went in favour of ex-pats was, I think in part, that if a person over 60 years old arrives from a far off land to live in the UK on the 1st September they are immediately entitled to WFA despite never paying taxes ...........etc, whereas a Brit just under 60, moving to live in the EU before September would never be entitled , despite having paid ..................... etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 There are many different types of horses and even many different stables.One needs to identify the stable, prior to the door being bolted and then the correct horse. There is no point in asking an old nag to perform like a young filly.I have ,on several occasions now ,been successful in identifying the correct stable where the young fillies are, and they have answered my questions to my complete satisfaction : ie Am I now entitled to claim for WFA being born before 1951 but living in France but previously resided in the UK until 2000 at which point I was not of an age to receive WFA.plus several supplementary questions on backdating payments, claim form etcetcetc.I have always received a positive response.Perhaps you need to seek out the correct stable were the fillies are kept and ask them the question. You may be amazed by the answer. On the other hand just believe the answer given by your horse because that will speed the process up for the rest of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Tis a very long time since I have seen such an atrocious post. IF I were to work in the WFA service, I reckon that I would be looking to take some sort of action against you for talking about the staff like that..... me obviously being an old nag........ and it is rich coming from un viellard. And I think you'll find it is illegal in France to so do!!! I sincerely hope that you get not a penny. That is simply my opinion. I am against any non residents getting it. We have friends, UK Residents who get this and it goes straight to Help for Heroes every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I think it would be better to pay the state pension at a rate sufficient for needs, then scrap all the bits and pieces such as WFA, Pensioner Credit etc which half the pensioners don't know they can claim anyhow, and the administration of which probably costs nearly as much as the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 I see posts like that every day ,it is called humour. I do not quite see the relevance with your mention of help for heroes. People are free to do whatever they like with the payment, whether spending it on fuel, booze ,fags, or even on the horses. or indeed giving it to a man in the street or flushing it down the toilet.As I am not being insulting you would be hard pushed to take any sort of action and as I am not referring to French fonciaires I think you will find it is not illegal anyway.PS website has been changed again with an update making it slightly clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brown Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I got the joke BF but may I suggest it was a euphemism to far !I'm going to spend my WFA allowance on fags, beer and loose women then I'll squander the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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