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New ruling on Winter fuel allowance


Boiling a frog

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Sorry but your logic has now failed me,,the EU have ruled that this is an exportable benefit, and that the UK must pay it to everyone in the EU who would have been entitled if they had remained in the UK.

Seems perfectly sensible to me.

Just like UK driving licences remain valid in the EU, DLA Unemployment benefit and several other benefits are exportable .

It is a lot colder in my part of France than it ever was where I came from in the UK and I have been in Spain in January ,in fact I was snowed in last year for several day and in April I was shocked when I woke up to snow falling .

So apart from the Canaries it is cold in Spain during the winter as well, so that argument, which is irrelevant anyway is out the window.
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Tis a very long time since I have seen such an atrocious post. IF I were to work in a vets, I reckon that I would be looking to take some sort of action against you for talking about the staff like that..... me obviously being an old dog........ and it is rich coming from un viellard. And I think you'll find it is illegal in France to so do!!!
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[quote user="sid"]

Whilst this is an open forum, and I acknowledge that, I do get annoyed when I'm lectured by someone who doesn't even live here.

 

[/quote]I apologise if I have had the temerity to comment on this forum even tho' I don't actually live in France. I was not aware that was a condition of using the forum. As a person who is contributing to UK public funds to pay the WFA I think I have as much right as anyone to comment on who it should be paid to. Remember that UK benefits are paid out of current government income and not out of previous contributions

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[quote user="Russethouse"] It was a benefit never meant for non residents and it's a grave misjudgement to give it IMHO.......looking further than France there are those in parts of Spain which are rarely cold, ( thats why some people winter there )that will receive it ....quite mad.[/quote]

 

Which is why RH, the old form for claiming specifically INCLUDES Gibraltar.

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Indeed, and many of us are still paying tax in the UK, without much say about how it gets spent. I shall consider my WFA as £200 less to pay for Gove's free schools. I don't really think the argument about present contributions stacks up. When I was working I paid for the education of a lot of people who are now moaning about having to pay pensions. That is the way it works.
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[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="sid"]

Whilst this is an open forum, and I acknowledge that, I do get annoyed when I'm lectured by someone who doesn't even live here.

 

[/quote]I apologise if I have had the temerity to comment on this forum even tho' I don't actually live in France. I was not aware that was a condition of using the forum. As a person who is contributing to UK public funds to pay the WFA I think I have as much right as anyone to comment on who it should be paid to. Remember that UK benefits are paid out of current government income and not out of previous contributions

[/quote]

I agree that you have the same right to comment as anybody else.

I also contribute to UK public funds to pay the WFA which  I happen to  believe should be means tested.

I also pay taxes in the UK but have no vote there, so my right to comment on  this though the ballot box has been suppressed.

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[quote user="EmilyA"]Indeed, and many of us are still paying tax in the UK, without much say about how it gets spent. I shall consider my WFA as £200 less to pay for Gove's free schools. I don't really think the argument about present contributions stacks up. When I was working I paid for the education of a lot of people who are now moaning about having to pay pensions. That is the way it works.[/quote]I am surprised you deigned to reply to my post since you don't think UK residents like me have the right to express an opinion on this forum. You say you didn't understand my point about present contributions yet in your next sentence appear to accept it. However some previous posters in this thread have said that because they had paid NI contributions they were therefore entitled to WFA.

You are not alone in not having much say in how our UK tax money is spent. Most of live in safe parliamnetary seats so our individual votes have not affect at all. Only in very rare circumstances can we as individuals affect any political party's policies. But that is another matter. This thread has strayed far from its origins  and I regret that some contributors wish to silence any one who they feel does not agree with them

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We are still paying in both countries and frankly where I live is my business. For the rest of my days,  unavoidably, I will have my feet in both camps. For many people (not all, bien sur) if they sell up and leave France, that will be it, finished with France.  France is of great interest to me for many reasons.

If the holiday home owners and non french residents stopped posting on here, then really we may as well close the board down. Your contributions help keep this board going. So thankyou for posting, I may not always agree with you, but I appreciate your presence and comments.

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[quote user="EmilyA"]I have no problems with comment and debate Rabbie. Sid was talking about being lectured; I also find that annoying.[/quote]Thank you for clarifying that. I think most of us find being lectured annoying regardless of where the lecturer is living. Sid definitely gave me the impression that he felt the forum should only be for people living in France so I am afraid you picked some guilt by association. Now lets all move on because regardless of our views here this issue will be resolved by the UK Government and the European Court.
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Andy : Gibralter is a British Overseas territory...goodness knows why the Government that introduced it decided they should have it, but they did.

From http://www.saga.co.uk/money/tax-and-benefits/receive-your-benefits-abroad.aspx :

One anomaly is that France includes its overseas territories Martinique and Guadeloupe in the Caribbean, Réunion in the Indian Ocean tropics and French Guiana in South America. The payment can be paid in these countries where December temperatures are typically 25-30°C. It can also be paid in Spain’s Canary Islands, Ibiza and Majorca as well as the Portuguese Azores and Madeira islands.

________________________________________________________________________

I'm willing to have a small wager that withing 10 years entitlement to this benefit will have changed substantially.

 

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What a vitriolic thread this has degenerated into.

Surely the answer to disagreements on who gets WFA and where is quite simple :-

If you don't get it, and don't want it then don't apply for it.

If you get it and don't want it then give it away to a deserving cause ( my bank details are available for this ).

If you get it and are quite happy to do so then good luck to you.

If you strongly object to others who get it then enter Politics and try to get the rules changed - good luck with that
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[quote user="powerdesal"]What a vitriolic thread this has degenerated into.

Surely the answer to disagreements on who gets WFA and where is quite simple :-

If you don't get it, and don't want it then don't apply for it.

If you get it and don't want it then give it away to a deserving cause ( my bank details are available for this ).

If you get it and are quite happy to do so then good luck to you.

If you strongly object to others who get it then enter Politics and try to get the rules changed - good luck with that[/quote]

HEAR ! HEAR! to that.

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Well said, Steve. 

I shall apply on behalf of Mr C.  If it's ours then why not?  There are plenty of things other people get who have far more to begin with than we do.  For instance, isn't family allowance (or whatever it's called now) payable to all, regardless of income, as is the state old age pension?  I used to work for a couple who had 6 racehorses and 300 acres of prime West Sussex farmland and she used to proudly tell me what she spent her old aged pension on.  They'd paid in so fair enough.  I thought that was what the welfare state was all about.  Silly me.

Actually, I could do with a summer fuel allowance at the mo'.  I came downstairs yesterday and the radiators had turned themselves on it had got so cold in the night.

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No, you won't get family allowance how ever much you earn , a change was proposed in the 2012 budget and will come into affect in 2013:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/21/child-benefit-threshold-rises-50000-2012-budget 

and

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2012/cb-income-tax.htm

As I have said my view is that WFA will change and so it should, why on earth do people who are 60 and working get it, unless they are on other benefit ? All it will take is a government with a decent majority. I don't think there is anything particularly vitriolic about that view. Bringing it in with pension payments would be a step in the right direction. And so would an maximum average winter temperature.....as the Saga link shows there are plenty of places where people may be eligible and the average temperature in winter is not only mild but quite pleasant.

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I think this miserable weather - at least here in Southern England - is making us all a bit grumpy.[:)]  When I first got the WFA it paid for a tank of heating oil  but now it only pays for a third of a tank. I have no problem with universal benefits but I do think they should count as part of your taxable income. This won't affect those on very low incomes who need the help most but will claw some of it back from those of us who are a bit better off.

I sometimes think the french have personal tax better organised when they charge income tax on the household income and not on the individual. It just seems a little bit fairer to me

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[quote user="powerdesal"]What a vitriolic thread this has degenerated into. Surely the answer to disagreements on who gets WFA and where is quite simple :- If you don't get it, and don't want it then don't apply for it. If you get it and don't want it then give it away to a deserving cause ( my bank details are available for this ). If you get it and are quite happy to do so then good luck to you. If you strongly object to others who get it then enter Politics and try to get the rules changed - good luck with that[/quote]

I couldn't agree more.

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I agree - I would put WFA in with the old age pension and then reclaim it through the tax system. I guess people who get it paid to them in France already pay tax on it here though. Is it totally tax free in the UK?

RH, I really can't see how you can take the winter (or summer!) temperature into account, it would be far too complicated and as I said several pages ago, it is less than 1% of the total WFA that is paid abroad.

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

No, you won't get family allowance how ever much you earn , a change was proposed in the 2012 budget and will come into affect in 2013:

[/quote]Jolly good. 

It's not that I'm in favour of non-means-tested benefits, simply that if that's the system then I'll take it as I don't feel I'm any more or less deserving than anybody else who takes what's due to them.  Personally, I think it should be income based and have nothing to do with where you live.  It would be far less of a political hot potato if it were about helping those on low incomes rather than giving it a meaningless name and then giving it to everybody.

I get free rail travel in the UK because of my former profession.  I think maybe I should go to the EU and suggest that I get the same here instead of just the 50% off I enjoy at present.[:)]

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