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New ruling on Winter fuel allowance


Boiling a frog

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Interesting. I thought one of DC's recent proposals was to get rid of WFA for people living abroad? I love the way the Sun readers assume that everwhere abroad is hot. Perhaps it could be like the pasty tax and they could go round with thermometers to see if it is cold enough to qualify? Can't quite see where the Sun gets all those tens of millions of pounds that it is going to cost. I think I read somewhere the other day that payments abroad are 1% of the total.
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One of the silliest aspects of this was always the arbitrary age element, which meant that two people living next door to each other could be treated differently just on the basis of the age at which they moved.

I have certainly lived in places in France where it feels colder in winter than it did when I lived in the West of England.

On the other hand I would be perfectly happy not to receive it on the grounds of income, if it were to be means tested.

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I do not think that I can get my head around this at all.

 

The french hammer non residents for tax, and apparently they have free will to do it, as people who are non resident must be treat differently to residents.......... but not the case if it's the british government who payout !!!!!!!!!!

 I have also read that us non residents with french income should be so hammered as we don't spend money in France....... true, so are very bad for the french economy...... also true.

However, AS the french can treat non residents as they will........how come rulings always come down from Brussells meaning that the UK always has to fork out to non residents.

Re climate, well isn't the point that no UK citizen is shipped out of the UK and people chose to live where ever they want. Even in the UK there are radical temperature differences, surely Torquay and Aberdeen have rather different winter temperatures....... but the payment remains the same? I'm sure it does. When someone choses to move abroad, then I wouldn't send money abroad for anything at all, apart from pensions. It is a choice people make.

 

The EU.... well in spite of everything that I have to lose, if I get to vote in a referendum to get out of the EU, I will vote for the UK to leave.  Keep open trade agreements, that is all.

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[quote user="idun"]

The EU.... well in spite of everything that I have to lose, if I get to vote in a referendum to get out of the EU, I will vote for the UK to leave.  Keep open trade agreements, that is all.

[/quote]

Would the EU be forced to keep or want to keep those trade agreements though? The UK has long since lost the trading links with the Commonwealth, so it could lead to interesting times.

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[quote user="idun"]

I do not think that I can get my head around this at all.

When someone choses to move abroad, then I wouldn't send money abroad for anything at all, apart from pensions. It is a choice people make.

[/quote]

Well, I can't get my head around that! Why stop at WFA, why not stop pensions too if that's how you feel?  Yes, it's our choice, but it's not as if we're abandoning our citizenship!

The point of this surely is that if we've paid our contributions, 42 years in my case, then we feel that we should get the same payments as any other UK citizen, no matter where we live, and it does get bl**dy cold here in winter.

Yes, I feel strongly about the principle, not the actual amount in this case.

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''The french hammer non residents for tax,''

Idun. please clarify that comment.

In what way are non-residents in France ( ie holiday home owners ) 'hammered' for tax ? As I understand the situation, as a 'holiday home' owner who is not resident in France I do not submit any income details to the French Govt and pay no taxes other than the usual home ownership ones (d'hab and fonc ).
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[quote user="Russethouse"]

But the fact is that now we are only required to have 30 years worth of credits, so perhaps trimming these costs would be more easily justified?

 

[/quote]

But RH - surely here the principle is now how long you have paid for, but that you have contributed the required amount at the time you were paying, and that the pension is a "right" you have paid for.  And if the WFA was indeed allocated in lieu of a pension rise (which memory tells is correct), once you qualify for your state pension, you should also qualify for the WFA if it is indeed a universal benefit.

I know I was piqued because I left the UK before I was 60, but even if I hadn't the rules were such that I would have had to wait nearly a year to get the benefit, because my birthday falls in October .... I know my sister (same birthdate) who did stay in the UK was angered because she had to wait for 11 months to get a "universal benefit" even though she had reached the magic age almost a year before.

Standardisation seems the best way forward - you get it when you reach state pension age - regardless of a "qualifying week" or where you happen to live.

And yes, it is colder in the winter even here in the south of France than it ever was in London, and also most of the other places I've lived in the  UK, including my birthplace as far north as Yorkshire, so living abroad, as has been said, should not be used in the argument.

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[quote user="powerdesal"]''The french hammer non residents for tax,'' Idun. please clarify that comment. In what way are non-residents in France ( ie holiday home owners ) 'hammered' for tax ? As I understand the situation, as a 'holiday home' owner who is not resident in France I do not submit any income details to the French Govt and pay no taxes other than the usual home ownership ones (d'hab and fonc ).[/quote]

 

Non residents with french earned income (pensions are different) are hammered for income tax, in comparison to french residents. Our situation is different to most other peoples.

 

Incidentally people, us included still pay more in the UK, but that is NOT the point I am making here. What I am saying is that the french govenment do as they please with regards to non residents, and they just do it, penalising at leisure. Whereas I see posts saying that all UK non residents HAVE TO BE TREAT AS IF THEY LIVE IN THE UK! 

 

IF EU law says that non residents have to be treat equally to residents, then much french law is all to pot and they should be made to conform!?

 

I'll say NON to that, I really do not agree with that idea so they should not. You see I was in France long enough to understand the 'sentiment' in France. What I don't get is this, and I'm not sure what to call it, a gung ho attitude that I PAID, I'll live where I please and it is MY RIGHT to be paid. I don't get it at all, I lived in a quite different atmosphere for most of my adult life.

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I think it'd be better if all the bits and pieces (WFA, Pensioner Credit etc) were scrapped and the basic pension increased slightly. Maybe that will happen when the Universal Pension comes in.

Idun, I don't really understand your point in the last paragraph - isn't that exactly what you're doing?

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[quote user="idun"]

. What I don't get is this, and I'm not sure what to call it, a gung ho attitude that I PAID, I'll live where I please and it is MY RIGHT to be paid. I don't get it at all, I lived in a quite different atmosphere for most of my adult life.

[/quote]

 

Idun

 

just for one moment forget that this a the government pension and assume that it were a private pension that you had paid into.  If the pension firm suddenly sadi, you cannot have this element because you are no longer in the UK, then the agruement that you do not et would most surely apply.

 

So why not when it is public money?

 

Like you I have been away from the UK for a long time - effectively thrown out by policies that made manufacturing unattractive and so leaving the choice of moving abroad or being unemployed.

As such I resent  being treated as a second class citizen not entitled to the same things that my peers - who were indeed unemployed and being paid by the state -will be entitled to.

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But, in fairness, there are so many unfairnesses and anomalies in the system that this is just one more. The whole purpose of National Insurance and, to some extent, tax, is that you pay in more if you're working, and even more if you have a good salary, so that those with less get help, in whatever form it comes. Many people (me included, once upon a time) pay additional tax and NI as higher earners, yet if those people find themselves redundant or unemployed or whatever, they are generally entitled to less (often nothing!) than people who have been made redundant from lower-paying jobs. So, essentially, who ARE our peers?

It's not the 40 years tax and NI that the retired have paid that's funding their winter fuel allowance or whatever, it's the tax and NI that people are paying NOW. Pensioners may, in their opinion, be getting a raw deal, but so are the majority of the population. The majority went into this with their eyes open, knowing they weren't going to be entitled to WFA. Not only that, but for an awful lot, they were in a position (certainly denied to future generations) to retire early - because if they hadn't retired early then they'd still have been in the UK working at 60 and therefore fully entitled to WFA when they moved abroad. OK, I know that doesn't apply to everyone but it is almost certainly the case for the majority of UK nationals living overseas.

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So why not when it is public money?

But thats the point, it is public money and there is not enough to go around, so why give it to people who will in the most part, add it to the economy of another country?

The idea that you can go where you want and receive money in the same way as you would in the UK just wont work, what about the anomally of those who live in Canada and Australia who do not even get the pension increments?

Furthermore my guess is that Wooly for instance, like many others, gets a proportion of a pension because he doesn't qualify for a full one, is he now going to get a full heating allowance ?

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[quote user="idun"]

[quote user="powerdesal"]''The french hammer non residents for tax,'' Idun. please clarify that comment. In what way are non-residents in France ( ie holiday home owners ) 'hammered' for tax ? As I understand the situation, as a 'holiday home' owner who is not resident in France I do not submit any income details to the French Govt and pay no taxes other than the usual home ownership ones (d'hab and fonc ).[/quote]

 

Non residents with french earned income (pensions are different) are hammered for income tax, in comparison to french residents. Our situation is different to most other peoples.

 

Incidentally people, us included still pay more in the UK, but that is NOT the point I am making here. What I am saying is that the french govenment do as they please with regards to non residents, and they just do it, penalising at leisure. Whereas I see posts saying that all UK non residents HAVE TO BE TREAT AS IF THEY LIVE IN THE UK! 

 

IF EU law says that non residents have to be treat equally to residents, then much french law is all to pot and they should be made to conform!?

 

I'll say NON to that, I really do not agree with that idea so they should not. You see I was in France long enough to understand the 'sentiment' in France. What I don't get is this, and I'm not sure what to call it, a gung ho attitude that I PAID, I'll live where I please and it is MY RIGHT to be paid. I don't get it at all, I lived in a quite different atmosphere for most of my adult life.

[/quote]

Idun,

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be talking about French citizens who are non resident in France - is that correct, rather than British subjects who are non resident in France. Or are you talking about non France resident Brits who have an income from Gites in France ?

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So cut everybody RH.  I have no problem with that.  Just stop treating me as an undeserving second class citzen who lazes all winter in the tropical sun. 

 

YCCMB - Eyes wide open.  When I left the UK there was a pension that would be tied to inflation and WFA stood for something rather rude and had nothing to do with a pension.

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