Bugsy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16347953at last.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 That IS good news. It seems to have taken ages for the jury to come out with a verdict, but they finally did.All the time that pair were walking free, perhaps others thought they could get away with the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 .telegraph. /Stephen-Lawrence-murder-jurors-did-not-know-about-Gary-Dobson-and-David-Norriss-violent-past. Why are past crimes not admissable as character references? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 They will find themselves in prison where the majority of fellow inmates will be black .... Many also Muslim converts ..... Their worst nightmare . I imagine they will find out what the inside of the prison hospital looks like pretty soon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think Norris is already in prison for another offence.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 [quote user="Frederick"]They will find themselves in prison where the majority of fellow inmates will be black .... Many also Muslim converts ..... Their worst nightmare . I imagine they will find out what the inside of the prison hospital looks like pretty soon . [/quote] I would hazard a guess that there are more Scousers, Londoners and Scott's in prison than Blacks or Muslim converts, or don't you count them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 [quote user="NickP"][quote user="Frederick"]They will find themselves in prison where the majority of fellow inmates will be black .... Many also Muslim converts ..... Their worst nightmare . I imagine they will find out what the inside of the prison hospital looks like pretty soon . [/quote] I would hazard a guess that there are more Scousers, Londoners and Scott's in prison than Blacks or Muslim converts, or don't you count them?[/quote]I was unable to find results for ethnicity, but out of curiousity:-Table A1.25 Population in prison under an immediate custodial sentence, by sentence length, religious group and sex.4 years or more. England and Wales 30 June 2010 (latest figures I could find)Anglican 6543Free Church 383Roman Catholic 4318Other Christian 1207Buddhist 460Hindu 119Jewish 80Muslim 3471Sikh 189Other religions 156Non recognised 115No religion 6466Not recorded 178Total 23,685 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 They've been given a minimum of just over 14 and 15 years in prison before they can be considered for parole. Apparently they have been sentenced in line with their ages at the time. I don't think that's right - they've had all those years to give themselves up.Two down, three at least to be tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There may well be more scousers . Londoners and Scotts in prison ...throughout the UK... But in the London area some prisons are almost black only prisons . Diane Abbott MP has made this fact and the conversion rate among black prisoners to Islam a cause for concern . Perhaps they will be kind to these two and send them well out of London where they will not have to serve a sentence mixing with those they dont like .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 They'll probably be put on the sex offenders' wing, having no contact with general prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16409010 I do hope he gets his wish to return again . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 ''During his time on remand, Norris has been attacked and badly beaten up by other prisoners. In one violent incident he had his nose broken, lost four teeth and had four of his ribs broken. '' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 [quote user="gardengirl "]They'll probably be put on the sex offenders' wing, having no contact with general prisoners.[/quote]Listening to LBC today, even if they go there, there are "ethnic" prison warders who won't be so sympathetic.Racism cuts both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breizh Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If this is the 3rd time they have been tried, and twice found not guilty, how many times is the state allowed to commit an accused to trial? Ad infinitum?When I did law at Uni, it was double indemnity, Magna Carta, and all that. Bit out of touch now. Has the law changed? Has it been applied retrospectively in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 They have only been tried by the state once before. The second one was a private prosecution.The double jeopardy law was changed a few years ago. I cannot remember all the details although there was another case of a campaigning mother whose daughter had been murdered by her husband which brought double jeopardy into disrepute. I think the more sophisticated use of DNA also had something to do with it.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 ''The government's law reform advisers recommended reform of the double jeopardy rule , and the law was changed in the Criminal Justice Act 2003. That legislation says the court of appeal must order a re-trial if there is new and compelling evidence and it is in the interests of justice for an order to be made.'' .guardian. double-jeopardy-change-law-retrial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 [quote user="breizh"]If this is the 3rd time they have been tried, and twice found not guilty, how many times is the state allowed to commit an accused to trial? Ad infinitum?When I did law at Uni, it was double indemnity, Magna Carta, and all that. Bit out of touch now. Has the law changed? Has it been applied retrospectively in this case? [/quote]In the UK its call double jeopardy and was abolished under the Criminal Justice Act 2003 and became law (or rather removed from law) in 2005.The original reason for this law was to basically stop the police from continually attempting to prosecute somebody till they got the result they wanted. Under the new system they still can't do this. The Crown Prosecution Service can apply, giving good reason, (normally it's 'in the public interest') to the Director of Public Prosecutions for the case to be retried. If he/she believes it is in the 'public interest' then a retrial can take place.In this particular case the reason was because of new technology (namely enhanced DNA testing) that was able to prove the accused were actually there which they couldn't do before.Just as slight technical correction they were only tried once by the CPS and again by a civil action, the two are quite separate under law.As to these two animals it is my personal believe than not only should they have got the 'tariff' as it was at the time of the murder but the time from the original prosecution to this one should be added to the total time to be served.If I were the alleged other culprits I would be very worried. I have heard that one of those convicted may turn 'Queens Evidence' but we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Very interesting detail in the full summing up; they were not necessarily guilty of the fatal blow, but, for the intent of a racist attack which resulted in Stephen Lawrences death, which I presume would remove success of appeal should another be found guilty of the fatal blow. .telegraph.co.uk/ /Stephen-Lawrence-Mr-Justice-Treacys-sentencing-remarks-in-full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 [quote user="Quillan"][quo If I were the alleged other culprits I would be very worried. I have heard that one of those convicted may turn 'Queens Evidence' but we shall see.[/quote]I take it this was someone in your local bar or tabac who imparted this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 [quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"][quo If I were the alleged other culprits I would be very worried. I have heard that one of those convicted may turn 'Queens Evidence' but we shall see.[/quote]I take it this was someone in your local bar or tabac who imparted this information?[/quote]Not at all but somebody who has strong links with those involved in the case. Actually whilst typing this the BBC news is on in the background and has just confirmed what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 [quote user="NickP"] I take it this was someone in your local bar or tabac who imparted this information? [/quote]If you read between the lines of this quote,What detectives hope is that facing a long jail sentence the men – Dobson in particular – may provide new evidence that they could pursue . . . http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/04/dobson-norris-murder-stephen-lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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