tax referance number

[tigerfeet]

what is classed as my tax referance number ?

is it the " Numero FIP " ?

Thanks

[Ron Avery]

Look on your tax bills, its normally your "numero fiscal", but it depend what you want it for, for paying you need the "Reference de l'avis".

[tigerfeet]

thanks Ron

I need it for reclaim UK tax (FD5)

the only one I can see numero fiscal is on my "contributions social form"

appears to be one for me and one for the wife "conjoint"

[Ron Avery]

It is your Numero Fiscal, its on all your tax forms Habitation, Fonciere etc.

As far as needing it for an FD 5, you do know that you have to take your FD 5 and get it signed off  by your local tax office, who send it to Paris and then on To Nottingham after checks don't you?  It is normally done when you do your French tax return and they can see that the amount that you are claiming tax back on from the UK is the same amount you have declared on your French Tax return.

[tigerfeet]

thanks again Ron

the way I read the FD5 , I do not have to put any actual amounts if my claim is just for tax deducted under PAYE .

and my figures will match that supplied to the French tax office

I intend just posting the FD5 to my local tax office

[Ron Avery]

Its such a long time since I did an FD 5 that I forget what goes on it, I know the dates have to tally with your entry into France on your French return as that is checked.

If you send it to your tax office take a copy if there isn't one already, but they may not process it if you have not yet completed a French tax return though

Don't hold your breath for a refund.  It is not always the tax office in Paris that holds it up, although they often get the blame, it goes from Paris to Non-residents Admin in Nottingham who send it after checking and approval to your new tax office in Bootle who then contact your old tax office and ask for your records etc.

If all is OK they will send an authorisation for a change in code to gross payment and an authorisation for a refund if you are receiving money or a pension from the UK.  If not, you have to wait for a cheque, and all this depends on the backlogs in dealing with items in all those offices[blink]

[Sunday Driver]

The FD5 process is not that complicated.  On receipt of the stamped form from Paris certifying you are now in the French tax system, HMRC calculate your UK tax refund based on the date you provided on the FD5.  There is no cross check of dates or figures with the French tax form.

 

[chessfou]

I never did establish precisely what should be entered on the FD5, despite several phone calls to all the obvious places.

Self-evidently, it had to be either the "FPI" (identifies the foyer) or the "SPI" number (identifies the individual - if you have a conjoint then s/he will have a different SPI).

Both numbers can be found near the top r-h corner of the first (main) page of your Avis (green form).

If I had to choose one, I would choose the SPI (because it goes down to individual level) but, instead, I wrote in both* the FPI and the SPI and the FD5 has gone through and been satisfactorily processed.

*the box for the info was not very large, hence my writing was very small and I also attached a sheet with the numbers writ large.

[tigerfeet]

thanks everyone for your replies

There was no SPI number on my green form only an FIP number.

I used the numero fiscal off my conributions sociales form and the FD5 is now in the post.

[Ron Avery]

Sunday Driver wrote

"The FD5 process is not that complicated.  On receipt of the stamped form from Paris certifying you are now in the French tax system, HMRC calculate your UK tax refund based on the date you provided on the FD5.  There is no cross check of dates or figures with the French tax form."

There was by our tax office as we did our first tax return at the same time as submitting the FD5.

SD, if no checks are normally carried out, then why does it have to go via your local tax office who stamp it and then send it to Paris, who do what with it exactly?  You cannot send it straight to Paris or the UK, they send it straight back so if no checks are done on it by the FRench as you say, then why  do they need to see it??.

[Benjamin]

If you submit the FD5 at the same time as your first French tax return you won't know your Fiscal Number at that point.

I always thought that the local French tax office entered it and then sent it on to the UK via Paris.

I don't know when the FD5 was introduced but there used to be a gigantic hole for people working for a UK company in France and getting their salary paid gross in the UK and then never declaring to the French authorities. The FD5 closed this loophole.

[chessfou]

[quote]if no checks are normally carried out, then why

does it have to go via your local tax office who stamp it and then send

it to Paris, who do what with it exactly?  You cannot send it straight

to Paris or the UK,[/quote]

Depends. I took ours in and asked them to stamp them and send them on. They stamped them and handed them back (both French and both English). I pointed out they were supposed to keep the French copy of each (so they did). I was about to point out to them also that they were supposed to send the form back to the uk when I remembered a bit of the HMRC covering letter ("If your local tax office returns the claim form to you please send it on to our Nottingham office." So I did that.)

So, you certainly can send it directly to the uk.

[chessfou]

[quote]There was no SPI number on my green form only an FIP number.[/quote]

tigerfeet, are you alone in your foyer? That could be an explanation.

My form has the following fields (printed in green) at top r-h:

Nom

Adresses

Direction ... ... ...

Année de naissance:

Numéro FIP:

Numéro de rôle:

which is immediately followed by (printed in black): No SPI vous: ... ... No SPI conjoint: ... ...

[tigerfeet]

[quote user="chessfou"][quote]There was no SPI number on my green form only an FIP number.[/quote]

tigerfeet, are you alone in your foyer? That could be an explanation.

My form has the following fields (printed in green) at top r-h:
Nom
Adresses
Direction ... ... ...
Année de naissance:
Numéro FIP:
Numéro de rôle:

which is immediately followed by (printed in black): No SPI vous: ... ... No SPI conjoint: ... ...
[/quote]

no , not alone

but as my tax form was for only 6 months income no tax was payable

my form had the same fields as yours without the SIP.

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

SD, if no checks are normally carried out, then why does it have to go via your local tax office who stamp it and then send it to Paris, who do what with it exactly?  You cannot send it straight to Paris or the UK, they send it straight back so if no checks are done on it by the FRench as you say, then why  do they need to see it??.

[/quote]

The FD5 has to go through the French - they have to stamp it to certify you are now in their tax system.  Until this happens, HMRC have no proof you are tax resident abroad.

HMRC accept the date you declare as your date of arrival in France.  The French tax form does not require this information, so there's nothing for anyone to check.  HMRC just trust you...[;-)]

The amounts declared to the French are also irrelevent to HMRC - they're subject to French tax, not UK tax.  And vice versa for amounts previously declared in the UK.