BobDee Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 We have this in common. Tax resident in France and declaring all interest received from UK banks gross to the French tax authorities. We dutifluly apply every year to the UK tax authorities for repayment of tax deducted via an R43 or whatever, and have to wait may be a year for the tax deducted to be repaid. Being true Brits we go along with this inane procedure and are somehow pleased when the tax we paid is finally returned. Efforts to get the banks to pay interest gross are invariably met by responses ranging from, "if you want to be paid gross, we suggest you open an off shore facility" to "We dont have the facilities to pay interest without deducting tax."The bottom line is we, the long suffering savers, are being taken advantage of big time, and in the present climate of people power asserting itself, perhaps we shouldnt be quite so compliant to the current system.If all the expats with money in UK savings accounts withdrew it to favour a French bank, then maybe the odd financial eyebrow would be raised. Sadly the present exchange rate dose not favour this approach and we all quite like to keep some money in the UK, but there must be a way of getting interest paid gross.Are our human rights being abused? I for one, am feeling pretty sore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Why not simply bank in the Channel islands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDee Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 "Why not simply bank in the Channel islands?"Probably because of the lack of UKGovernment guarantees re the admitedly unlikely possibilty of Bank failure and the difficulty in paying UK creditors on line and the absence of cheque and debit cards. Its pretty sad if you have to close your UK Bank accounts just to get around a needless systematic failure. Clearly the UK banks could pay interest gross if they had half a mind to. Once closed it is impossible to open a UK bank account if you are living permanently in France as we all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Now then, I have used Channel Islands Banks for years, Nat West and another. Have cheque book and credit card. Guarantees are now in place.What mainland banks do is their own business. The only time I have had problems paying was with FRENCH webistes but then that is because they have a boondocks mentality, sometimes.You seem to be trying to teach me to suck eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 [quote user="BobDee"]Its pretty sad if you have to close your UK Bank accounts just to get around a needless systematic failure. Clearly the UK banks could pay interest gross if they had half a mind to. Once closed it is impossible to open a UK bank account if you are living permanently in France as we all know.[/quote]It's called the EU Savings Directive....and, no, you won't persuade the banks to change their minds. Most UK banks would be more than happy to see non resident investors moving their accounts to offshore entities - saves them a load of administrative hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDee Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 [quote user="woolybanana"] You seem to be trying to teach me to suck eggs.[/quote]Sorry WB, that was not the intention. The original posting was meant to seek advice from other folks as what options were available. Nationwide International do not seem to offer the famed NW debit card and the two tax options they have, the wthholding tax and exchange of information, have no apparent advantages over NW UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 We were told by the Inland Revenue that the banks refuse to use the form provided for one to certify "I am not a UK taxpayer". With the EU savings directive that would be a problem anyway as they would have to ask for and get your overseas tax reference and supply details to that overseas country - too much hassle for them.We have found that we can get the tax back very quickly by doing our UK tax return online - i.e. using self-assessment instead of the R43. You really need to have a helpful person in the revenue mark your file for SA as otherwise the computer gets confused! If you have other income, e.g. property income then this should be able to be done. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Please, Hereford, I know I'm asking to be spoonfed and will be told off in no uncertain terms, but would you kindly explain in a little more detail?Do you do the SA at the usual time around April 6 and do you just download the form and then you are able to use your last UK tax reference and tax office, etc?Will you tell me as much as possible if I claim some priority by saying I love Hereford and its cathedral? (toady, toady..........., pretty please?)Also, how do you get hold of "a helpful person in the revenue mark your file for SA"?[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereford Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 We are registered for SA online as we did this as soon as we retired (we are accountants so were sending huge numbers of client returns online before but once retired we had to use the revenue software!)We still have property income in the Uk so it is not a problem for us as normally you have to do a "proper" return although we do not pay any tax in the UK.If you have no income in the UK apart from the interest it may be difficult to arrange to do a SA filing. I was told a year or so ago that I need not send a form unless my circumstances changed - ignoring the fact that I have tax on interest to claim back - not helpful. I filed anyway (which you can do) but the computer coughed as it thought it did not want a form.. It took some phone calls to sort this out. I have no idea whether it is possible to register online once you are actually living here in France - I rather suspect not - in which case I have started a red herring running, for which I apologise. For one thing the site when you file says it can't be done unless you are in the UK - this is rubbish as we have done it successfully for some years now. You need a UK postcode but a poster some months ago gave a way round this - not a scam but given to her (I think it was a her) by the Inland Revenue.Please pm me if I can help.H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thank you for your kind offer, Hereford.As we have still to be recognised as French tax residents by the UK authorities, I guess I was jumping the gun by asking you about SA declaration on line.After over 2 years, I am now going to get off my behind and do a bit of sabre rattling with the tax people. It's all so morale-sapping that my pestering of them has been intermittent at best and half-hearted at worst.No more excuse to do nothing after the weekend as I have now had my planned holiday and my visitor will have gone home. But I think I'd rather have my teeth removed without anaesthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprogster Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 My understanding is that UK banks can pay interest gross to non UK residents, but most UK banks choose not to do so, because the bank has the tax liability if they get it wrong.Therefore, all the main UK retail banks prefer to manage their non resident clients through their Channel Islands, or Isle of Man branches, which provide identical cheque and debit card current account facilities to their UK parent operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil & Pat Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 [quote user="Sprogster"]My understanding is that UK banks can pay interest gross to non UK residents, but most UK banks choose not to do so, because the bank has the tax liability if they get it wrong.Therefore, all the main UK retail banks prefer to manage their non resident clients through their Channel Islands, or Isle of Man branches, which provide identical cheque and debit card current account facilities to their UK parent operations.[/quote]I had no difficulty in persuading HSBC and First Direct to pay my interest gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 With Nationwide, I get one lot of interest paid gross on an account that I opened before coming to live here but, on all subsequent accounts opened since being in France, interest is paid net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 WB,Jersey have not yet got around to implementing a depositor guarantee scheme, although this is not far off, and Guernsey were forced to implement such a scheme after depositors lost their money in the Landabanki Guernsey failure. In either case, have you looked to see if the schemes would actually have the capacity to pay out if a bank collapsed? There is a difference between a guarantee that is just a marketing ploy to encourage depositors to leave their money in place and one that will actually payout when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Well Glyn, thanks for the thoughts. In fact the bank I use is a branch of a mainland one now owned by the government, which calls itself a deposit taking institution and which claims to be covered by the UK scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 [quote user="sweet 17"]With Nationwide, I get one lot of interest paid gross on an account that I opened before coming to live here but, on all subsequent accounts opened since being in France, interest is paid net.[/quote]Well done, Sweet! I'm just going through the whole rigmarole of trying to get interest paid gross, and NW is being particularly difficult, trying to fob me off with using their International banking - whose products I have examined more than once and decided against! I wonder if it is anything to do with opening accounts before you leave the UK (with the gross application having been put in OK), and opening accounts after you leave?Mind you, I'd feel less aggravated if they could write a letter that was grammatically correct!! I'm told I have to send certain forms to HMRC - I have the forms, but I don't know which bit of HMRC I send them to (it will be the bit to reclaim tax back). Can anybody point me in the right direction, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Judith, they didn't send me any forms for the accounts with net interest. Instead, I have a Section 975 Certificate which has the following info: gross, tax paid, net interest, period covered.They have assured me that this certificate/letter is enough proof for IR purposes of the interest I have paid. Mind you, I haven't tested the letter yet as our tax position is still to be resolved by IR UK (after 2 years and 3 months) but that is another story and I won't bore you with that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 JudithSo long as you've told HMRC that you've moved the following link should get you where you want to be.http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kbroker/hmrc/contactus/search.ladv?sr=0&as=1&cs=ISO-8859-1&sc=hmrc&sf=&sm=0&nh=50&ha=34&tx0=370342&fl0=__dsid:&tx1=2020&raction=view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un autre Gallois Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I thought I had succeeded in avoiding the annual HMR paper chase to reclaim I/ tax deducted from interest, but despite the Revenue writing to me last October that they "have now arranged for future payments of the income shown below to be made non - liable to UK income tax:Nationwide and Lloyds TSB Interest" tax has been deducted subsequently from interest received ! The Revenue advised me that the exemption will apply so long as I am resident in France ......Needless to say I have asked each bank/building society why they have not done so. Response awaited! I suppose it is within the banks' powers to decline the revenue's request, but I live in hope as it has effectively been underwritten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 BenjaminMany thanks. It's only taken me a month to action this one - I've just emailed them, to find out what I need to do as I now don't know quite where I left it. I'm pretty sure I sent the leaving the UK form, but possibly to the wrong address. It won't help that they may not have tied up hubby's and my tax affairs, as I don't use his surname. And for years I have been taxed separately of course. Perhaps I will get some answers soon, and spare the grey hairs arriving!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un autre Gallois Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 At last! But not successful - Nationwide responded first to say they do not accept the form 106, to which I replied that I had never filled in such a form! The IR had asked them to pay gross & had effectively underwritten any error! Lloyds telephoned me to explain their "position"!Interestingly, interst on term deposits above a certain threshold with the latter have been paid gross!Banks appear to be running scared at the moment (as evidenced in other posts about non res. ability to open accounts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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