tax -the correct way or not?????????????/

[chirpy]

Hi,

I have had a meeting with a person living here and translating French and providing assisstance with house purchase and tax forms.

I came here 9 years ago and spent 2-3 hours( with a French/English translater ) in  the tax office to get the correct proceedures for filling in their forms AFTER I had been led to believe tHat you cold choose to pay tax in u.k.!!

So when I met the helpfull tax people they filled in  forms for the part year i.e.last 6months  of 2001,2002and2003, so I could be assessed correctly up to date, and know the methods for future use.

A)   Income year 2001-6MONTHS.

.....They wrote my company pension of 6144 E in boxAS

                                      An annuity of 3403E in  boxBW( transferred from a former pension after I was made redudant .

                            and bank interest of 393E into boxTR .This was 2042 form.

ON LAST PAGE she entered 5219E into BOX TI-(I could not understand this!) and 6144E into BOX TL.

PAID NO TAX so did not worry.- BUT 240E CONTRIBUTION SOCIAL TAX DUE.

B) Income year 2002

...They wrote my company pension +o.a.p total of14453E  in box AS

                                                                    and 1048E in box BS for wife's OAP

                                                           annuity of 6807E in box BW

                                               and bank interest of 96E in box TR 

                                                   On last page 15501E in box TL

since I PUT IN DOUBLE GLAZING I received credit for this and only paid 173E tax and 428 contribution social.

C)Income year 2003

I filledin figures as instucted this year 18717E box AS

                                                         3243E box BS

                                                         6664E box BW

                                                              31E box TR

TAX 1023E and cont.social 341E.

D) Income year 2004

I CONTINUED MYSELF AS PREVIOUSL ADVISED BY TAX OFFICE.

Tax 916Econ.social 477E -SHOULD HABE BEEN 367E AND REBATE GIVEN.

E) Income year 2005

tax 1099E

CON.SOCIAL 367E

F) Income year 2006

visited tax office and they showed me how to fill in by internet.

tax852E

Con.social367E

G)Income year 2007

tax913E

CCON.SOC.353E

 

YESTERDAY MET TRANSLATER TO DISCUSS WHETHER I COULD GET A RE-ASSESSNENT DONE IF IN MY INTERESTS.

I WAS TOLD THAT  WITH INTERNET METHOD THERE IS NO SPACE TO WRITE IN WHERE YOU ARE NOT LIABLE TO TAX.

SHE SAID THE OAP SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY SOCIAL TAXES CHARGED .

 I SHOULD HAVE DECLARED MY ANNUITY AND COMPANY PENSION  AS INCOME  IN 2047 -THEN TRANSFER TO BOX TK..ON FORM2042.

 NOT DECLARE OAP EXCEPT IN 2047 FORM ITEM VII -THEN TRANSFER TO TI. -ON FORM 2042.

 .ANY COMMENTS BEFORE I DECIDE WHETHER THE TAX MAN WRITES ME OFF OR MY WIFE.

HAVE I PAID TAX UNNECESSERILY,

THANKS.

.

 

 

 

 

 

[parsnips]

Hi,

      The problems all stem from the incorrect original done by the tax office (which is why I think you could recover all the overpayments -even beyond the normal 3 yr limit)

       A;     Company pension box AS --CORRECT

                Annuity box BW-------------INCORRECT this should have been added to your works pension and 9547 € entered in box AS (I assume your wife had no OAP that year)

                Box TI 5219€ ---------------INCORRECT --I don't understand this either!

                Box TL 6144 € (company pension --CORRECT BUT FOR THIS YEAR ONLY-if your wife had no OAP ) this figure should have been 9547€ (inc annuity)

Your annuity was a result of a company scheme and therefore should have been treated as a normal pension, and FOR THIS YEAR ONLY subject to CRDS of 0.5%                       Box TR -------bank interest INCORRECT --should have been TS, but makes no difference to outcome.

       B:      Company pension + state pension box AS ----CORRECT

                Wife's state pension box BS-------------------CORRECT

                 Annuity box BW------------------------------INCORRECT, should have been added to company pension in AS to give 21260€

                 Box TR ---bank interest INCORRECT  --but makes no difference.

                  Box TL ------15501€ ---INCORRECT ,there should be nothing in this box as you were now on form E121 for health.

   If you had been taxed correctly your income tax (before credit for d/glazing )would have been about 1220€  with no CSG, (approx.as I have not got tax tables back that far.)

  You will be able to work out if it's worth claiming for this year.            

      C.and subsequent years-----the significant fault is that the annuity should have been declared as a normal pension which , after a set 10% allowance ,would have been taxed at your marginal rate ;   for this year, on the figures you give, the calculation should have been ------ (yr pensions 18717 + annuity 6664 + wife's pension 3243) =28624- 10%= 25962+31 (int)= 25993 which gives tax of 25993x0.14=3639-2628.13 =1011€ income tax  and no CSG as the csg due on 31€ interest(the only income subject it) is too small to collect.

           So you would have been 353€ better off , and probably similar for previous years.       

           If you get no response from the tax office I advise you to make a rendezvous with the "Conciliateur Fiscal" for your department and ,with your translator, take a copy of this post with all the relevant declarations and tax demands, or, if not possible to go , get this translated and send to him with all documents. 

         ( I'm afraid some of what your translator told you about tax was also incorrect-  none of your pensions should be put in box TK, or TI.)

                                                 

[chirpy]

THANKS AGAIN PARSNIPS FOR YOUR TIME.

I now understand what you are saying but my mathematics is o.k. ,however ,say I now visit and use their forms to fill in the various figures where do I WRITE THE FOLLOWING AFTER I PERSUADE THEM MY ANNUITY WAS A PENSION AND NOT AN ANNUITY-MY TRANSLATER CLAIMS RENTE VIAGERES IS FOR PROPERTY BUT WHAT IS THE BW SYMBOLFOR?

 -I WAS TOLD IT WAS THE YEAR I TOOK OUT THE POLICY .i.e.in the period 50-59 years but on form 2042 ,page 3 she is saying it is underneath the conjoint column but I believe this column is only for the traitment salaires.The word viageres is a life annuity taken out in the various periods and the earlier the year started  the more tax reduction  is possible.Do you agree? 

 

So if I have to start again and fill out tax form2047-declaration a l'etranger  WHERE SHOULD I PUT FOR THE EXAMPLE YEAR (C)2003 28624EURO? PAGE 1, I ASSUME .

.AND DO I FILL IT IN ITEMVI ON BACK PAGE?

ALSOTHE OAP -SHOULD THEY GO IN ITEM VII.

IF NOT WHERE ???AS THIS IS HOW THE LADY TOLD ME YESTERDAY.

NEXT COMING TO FORM 2042WHAT FIGURES AND WHERE SHOULD THEY BE PUT?.

FINALLY ANY BANK INTEREST IN U.K. -WHERE SHOULD IT GO?

AND ALSO ANY IN FRENCH BANKS?

 IN RECENT YEARS   FRENCH BANK INTEREST  HAS NOT TO BE DECLARED ,AS IT IS TAKEN DIRECT AND A COPY SENT TO TAX OFFICE.

SORRY TO BE A PEST TO YOU AS THIS HELP IS APPRECIATED AND I AM SUR OTHERS READING THIS EPISODE WILL HOPEFULLY AVOID SOME OF THE PITFALLS .!![8-)] BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET IT RIGHT NOW AND NOT GIVE MYSELF LOSSES IN FUTURE NOR MY OTHER HALF IF I KICK THE BUCKET BEFORE HER AS SHE HAS HAD ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITH ME FOR NEARLY 50 YEARS.(P.S. I AM FIT FOR 72 SO HOPEFULLY CAN SORT THIS TAX OUT BEFORE IT SENDS ME ROUND THE BEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAVE A BEER ONME OR A BOTTLE OF WINE AND IF I MANAGE TO GET THIS SORTED OUT MAYBE A LITTLE BIT STRONGER  MEDICINAL LIQUOR CAN BE SPECIFIED.[:D]

P.S. IF NONE OF MY FIGURES SHOULD BE ENTERED INTO BOXTK OR TI WHY DOES IT TELL YOU ON FORM 2047 TO TRANSFER THE FIGURES TO HESE VERY SAME BOXES!?????

OR IS THIS FOR FRENCH PEOPLE OR WORKING PEOPLE???[8-)]

 

 

[Sunday Driver]

There is some doubt as to whether UK annuities arising from former pension funds based on joint contributions of employer/employee qualify for treatment as pensions rather than rentes viageres de titre onereux.  The impots do not appear to recognise this distinction when setting out the appropriate tax treatment of such rentes.

The rest of your questions concerning the declaration of your foreign incomes are answered in the Tax Faqs at the head of the finance section of the forum.

As regards declaring your French bank interest, you just follow the instructions on the year end certificate you receive from your bank.

 

[parsnips]

Hi,

     I think your translator should stick to translating.

     All your questions about the form 2042 and where to enter things are answered in my previous post. It seems your problems stem from wrong entries on form 2047.

    The ONLY entries to put on form 2047 are:    Page 1 section 1 "traitements, salaires etc..."   "pensions, retraites,rentes"......put the sum of all your pensions (including the annuity) against -VOUS.   On the next line- CONJOINT..put your wifes pension, DO NOT ENTER ANY PENSION ANYWHERE ELSE ON THIS FORM.

    Transfer these figures to Boxes AS and BS on form 2042, DO NOT ENTER THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THAT FORM.

  

   Enter your UK bank interest on form 2047 page 2 , section B (near bottom of page )  1st column "PAYS D'EMISSION......etc" put  ..."royaume-uni"

, in column 5 " MONTANT NET...." enter the GROSS interest (I know it says net-but that's just a little eccentricity of the french tax system), in columns 6 and 7 put "0"

Then put the gross interest on line A and TS at bottom right then transfer the figure to page 3 Box TS on form 2042 , DO NOT ENTER IT ANYWHERE ELSE.

 Put french bank interest ONLY ON FORM 2042, as directed by the form you get from the bank.

  Thats all there is to it.