Income before tax?

[Gastines3]

Having moved back to UK 3 years ago I understand many things have changed since I was in the French Tax system.I wonder if someone could advise me the basics to help a friend who is having horrendous problems and payments in France. He doesn't seem to be getting very much help from his accountant. I always got the best advice from the C.d.C. and the Impots but again, he seems to knocking on brick walls.With his house in France being his only home/house,no savings in UK accruing any interest and at present his only income being a UK pension.Therefore income is £5400 into euros. As far as I remember this is not liable to tax,he has been informed otherwise. Also I understood that there was a level of allowed earnt income before tax was payable? At the moment he has had a social tax demand of 3000+ so surely something is going wrong? Trusting someone could help with the basics? Thankyou, andyes my wife and I wish we had stayed,returning to UK after 8 years by St.Malo was definitely a shock how quickly things had deteriorated.  

[parsnips]

[quote user="Gastines3"]

Having moved back to UK 3 years ago I understand many things have changed since I was in the French Tax system.I wonder if someone could advise me the basics to help a friend who is having horrendous problems and payments in France. He doesn't seem to be getting very much help from his accountant. I always got the best advice from the C.d.C. and the Impots but again, he seems to knocking on brick walls.With his house in France being his only home/house,no savings in UK accruing any interest and at present his only income being a UK pension.Therefore income is £5400 into euros. As far as I remember this is not liable to tax,he has been informed otherwise. Also I understood that there was a level of allowed earnt income before tax was payable? At the moment he has had a social tax demand of 3000+ so surely something is going wrong? Trusting someone could help with the basics? Thankyou, andyes my wife and I wish we had stayed,returning to UK after 8 years by St.Malo was definitely a shock how quickly things had deteriorated.  

[/quote]

Hi,

    I get the feeling that you have not given full details of your friend's case.    If his total income is only £5400 (€6300) - far below the french tax threshold, why does he need an accountant?    Has he a french business , or employment?  Is his pension the state retirement pension ? If not, how is his health cover paid for?

[Pommier]

Until someone better qualified comes along.........my understanding is that the UK state pension is taxable, but if that's his only income it would be below the threshold for paying tax. As regards the social charges, I believe he'd need to write on the tax return that he's an S1 holder and therefore not liable. His best bet is to go to the tax office with all paperwork and they'll help him. Got to ask though, how does he live on such a tiny income?

Re yourself, is it impossible for you to return to France? Lots of bargain houses available now in Normandy/Brittany!

Edit: the expert came along whilst I was posting!  

[idun]

I don't understand either why he would have bothered with an accountant.

Usually the impots people help and they always used to have

appointments in most mairies or social centres around the tax

declaration time, it was easy enough to find out about these permanances. Tell your friend to get all their info together,

including S1's and bank statements and pension statements and go and see

the tax inspector and be very apologetic and say that they need a lot

of help to get sorted out.

And regretting your move? Surely

that depends where you move to and your expectations.

I was told by some people who moved back after over 30 years in France that I hadn't a clue and it was awful. I most certainly would not have moved to the place they chose, which on paper probably looked good, maybe very good, but good sense told me that it was not the place for a retired couple. And they moved back to France and you couldn't pay me to live where they chose. In the mean time we moved back and I would rather be here. Just so much more for me to do, if I want. Still where I lived in France had pretty normal 'life'. In fact in our household, I am the only one who was not attacked/robbed/mugged whilst we were there. In fact there was nothing notably exceptional about our life in France, it was just France, with it's own ways and foibles. And there is nothing 'special' about where I live now, just more to do and good public transport.

[EuroTrash]

You don't say whether this 'pension' is a UK state retirement pension or not. Some kinds of pension are taxable in France, some aren't.

This could also have a bearing on his social security contributions bill (if this is what you mean by 'social tax demand'), If he is not a UK state pensioner he may not have a current S1, which might explain why he's received a bill for his contributions.

Presumably he is not in fact being charged income tax on that amount of income, but there are many other kinds of tax - I think you need to start by clarifying exactly what taxes he is in fact being charged.

[Araucaria]

[quote user="Gastines3"]

Having moved back to UK 3 years ago I understand many things have changed since I was in the French Tax system.I wonder if someone could advise me the basics to help a friend who is having horrendous problems and payments in France. He doesn't seem to be getting very much help from his accountant. I always got the best advice from the C.d.C. and the Impots but again, he seems to knocking on brick walls.With his house in France being his only home/house,no savings in UK accruing any interest and at present his only income being a UK pension.Therefore income is £5400 into euros. As far as I remember this is not liable to tax,he has been informed otherwise. Also I understood that there was a level of allowed earnt income before tax was payable? At the moment he has had a social tax demand of 3000+ so surely something is going wrong? Trusting someone could help with the basics? Thankyou, andyes my wife and I wish we had stayed,returning to UK after 8 years by St.Malo was definitely a shock how quickly things had deteriorated.  

[/quote]

I wonder if Gastines3 means £5,400 per month? That might make sense of the accountant (just) and the social charges - if it's a private pension (annuity-type) I think it would be liable to social charges.

[idun]

£5400 per month [:-))]............ les uns et les autres, nez pah!

[Gastines3]

Sorry fo late response but the Log-in is a nightmare!!!

As usual with friends they give you half the details and take bits of advice that suits them!!! When his idea of moving to France to live permanently and carry on his UK business first arose ,my advice was try and do it right not half in half out like many. I did say that by being registered for everything we were in the health system albeit with the plus of the top-up costing e1200 for the 2 of us. It now appears that he went to an accountant and told him he intended to carry on with his business from France,mostly UK clients etc etc. However in the space of 6 months there,the income became almost nil.. Added to this last month he reached 65.It now appears he has got himself into a mess that the Accountant or the Impots are not too clear how to unravel. I advised after becoming aware of the blunders that he forgets the Accountant, goes to the Impots with his S1 and new pension details and throw himself on their mercy and hopefully start anew. The question about the basics before tax was I thought he would be better finding out exactly what he can earn extra to his pension before paying tax and then work up from there. Lesson learnt from this is not to give advice as people don't give you all the facts and only tell you what suits them.

Thankyou for your replies. In response to our move back to UK, Family being the main reason,thankfully not financial.Even with that I think we saw more of them on holiday with us in France than we do over here.Returning to the are we have lived most of our lives,Bournemouth, has seen many changes over the last few years mostly being detrimental. Dorset is still a gem and we manage to enjoy most of it. Missing most is the food choice in France.On a recent visit to Sainsbury's we had vegetables from Spain,Italy Guatemala,Egypt,Israel,America,Kenya and even tomato's from Turkey.!!! Don't even think about the fish counters.However the sun is at present shining so that's a bonus.

Bonne Chance.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Gastines3"]

Sorry fo late response but the Log-in is a nightmare!!!

As usual with friends they give you half the details and take bits of advice that suits them!!! When his idea of moving to France to live permanently and carry on his UK business first arose ,my advice was try and do it right not half in half out like many. I did say that by being registered for everything we were in the health system albeit with the plus of the top-up costing e1200 for the 2 of us. It now appears that he went to an accountant and told him he intended to carry on with his business from France,mostly UK clients etc etc. However in the space of 6 months there,the income became almost nil.. Added to this last month he reached 65.It now appears he has got himself into a mess that the Accountant or the Impots are not too clear how to unravel. I advised after becoming aware of the blunders that he forgets the Accountant, goes to the Impots with his S1 and new pension details and throw himself on their mercy and hopefully start anew. The question about the basics before tax was I thought he would be better finding out exactly what he can earn extra to his pension before paying tax and then work up from there. Lesson learnt from this is not to give advice as people don't give you all the facts and only tell you what suits them.

Thankyou for your replies. In response to our move back to UK, Family being the main reason,thankfully not financial.Even with that I think we saw more of them on holiday with us in France than we do over here.Returning to the are we have lived most of our lives,Bournemouth, has seen many changes over the last few years mostly being detrimental. Dorset is still a gem and we manage to enjoy most of it. Missing most is the food choice in France.On a recent visit to Sainsbury's we had vegetables from Spain,Italy Guatemala,Egypt,Israel,America,Kenya and even tomato's from Turkey.!!! Don't even think about the fish counters.However the sun is at present shining so that's a bonus.

Bonne Chance.

[/quote]

Hi,

    The total amount of taxable income before tax was due last year was 12141€ (single) and 18481€ (couple)

[Gastines3]

Thanks Parsnips. I will pass on that info.

[idun]

Now that is quite another thing, is he mixed up with the URSSAF now.

I would hazard a guess that the Impots could be kind, but the URSSAF, well the language I could use about them would not be allowed on here. If they had a dictionnary, neither 'kind' or 'helpful' would be in, or firmly deleted.

Good luck to them.

[EuroTrash]

If he registered a business then his cotisations will no longer necessarily be directly related to income, depending on what regime he registered under and what he declared. It's between him, his accountant, URSSAF and 'im up there.

[Gastines3]

Up-date. Latest advice to him is sack the Accountant,go to Impots with all paperwork and start again.I doubt if he'll do it but I will refrain from offering advice in the future. I will say that we dealt with the St.Malo Impot,Chambre de Commerce and Ursaff and found them more than helpful and pleasant. Also thanks to some advice from'Micky' we registered on April1st and de-registerted on Sept 30th each year,for 6 years with no problems and saved a fortune in citisations. By letting the C.d.C. do the de-registering at a cost of e54, all re-payments were back in our bank very quickly. Thanks for responses.

Bonne Chance.