Tontine or regime

[KevinH]

Can anyone advise. My wife and I are in the process of buying a property in Normandy. It will be our sole property as we are leaving the UK. We have two children from this marriage but I also have three children from a previous marriage.

I would ideally like the house to be passed on to my wife if I die before her and then the house to be passed on to the two children from my second marriage only. My three children in the UK are already provided for.

Has anyone been in a similar situation?

Thanks, KevinH.

[Clarkkent]

You must see an expert in French property law - in France.

As I understand it, the insistance on property being inherited along the bloodline is paramount. You will NOT be able to disinherit your children from your earlier marriage. This cannot be changed. All a tontine will do is delay the ultimate disposal of the property among ALL descendents of BOTH spouses.

Would it be possible for your wife to buy the property on her own, thus ensuring that her children will inherit and then use usufruit to give you a life interest in the property (should she die before you) which will end with your own death?

 

[Will]

Don't necessarily believe what any one notaire or so-called 'expert' tells you. In some circumstances tontine is appropriate, in others marriage regime can be a better solution; there are others such as adoption of children and buying with an SCI that you can consider, though you have to be aware of all the implications, e.g. taxation-wise as well as inheritance-wise. It gets very complicated when children from a previous marriage are involved as it all comes down to who dies first. Maintaining an interest in the property is less of a problem than ensuring astronomical amounts of inheritance tax aren't payable, by either the surviving spouse or the children. As said above, in France it is impossible to disinherit children, all you can do is delay inheritance and make sure inheritance tax is kept at more sensible levels.

I can give you details of a bilingual consultant based near Caen, who works closely with various French specialists in law, tax etc who could help. I really do recommend that you get proper advice and don't just rely on the notaire handling the house sale.

[Iceni]

As I understand it, the insistance on property being inherited along the bloodline is paramount. You will NOT be able to disinherit your children from your earlier marriage. This cannot be changed. All a tontine will do is delay the ultimate disposal of the property among ALL descendents of BOTH spouses.

My understanding of the Tontine is that the bloodline of the first to die is disinherited. The house belongs to the remaining spouse and is then inherited by their children.

Personally I don't care a damn who inherits after we are both gone, with a bit of luck there will be nothing to squabble about (and trust me my extended family have PHD's in squabbling over wills), the children have been provided for. I care that we can live in dignity till the end of our days as we earned it.

As paying the least tax possible on the demise of one of us is paramount we have an appointment with a Notaire in a fortnight. We will change regime if needed but to help us not for any other reason.

[Frenchy]

Hi, we are in a similar situation to you and were advised to adopt the change of marriage regime (Communaute Universelle) mainly because of very high inheritance tax. I can't remember off hand but the threshold with the en Tonine clause is very low before inheritance tax is due at the time of death of the first spouse. With the CU there is no inheritance tax due to the surviving spouse. However after adopting this regime we have found that it may be impossible to disinherit your children. So it goes on. I would certainly recommend getting in touch with a good Notaire and not a UK based solicitor specialising in France. We used one and they were a complete waste of time and money (an understatement) send me a personal message if you would like to know the name. In any case it does all seem to be very complicated. Please keep us informed of your decision, I for one would be most interested in what you discover and finally decide upon. Best of luck.

[Emp]

Regime with donation entre epoux - gift between husband and wife and then what provisions you want to make for the children in the will - you will need to check with the notaire what you can do about the children from 1st marriage.

Tontine incurs a lot of tax and not necessay between husband and wife.

[Eleanor REleanor R<br>www.chicfinance.com<br>06 15 16 10 04]

You should be very careful with both the En Tontine and the regime CU.

If you split up the En Tontine clause can make things very messy but the property is passed to the surviving spouse upon death as thought the deceased had not existed.

The Regime CU means that all that you have ever had or will ever have belongs to both of you whether it be positive or negative.

An SCI does not resolve your problem either if you are intending to be French resident or if France can decide that you are French resident. The shares of an SCI have to respect the usual reserved hiers inheritance if you are French resident (by rhe by it is the same if your probate is treated un Scottish law).

The Donation en Epoux only works for a certain value over a given time span and if you die during that time, then it is considered as disguised inheritance, with 60% inheritance if you can be considered to be married into Seperation de biens.

Perhaps a solution could be to look at doing a regime CU 'reduit aux biens acquit en France' ie the regime would only apply to property purchased in France. This neatly protects you other half and your joint children if you die first. Unfortunately, if she dies first then all of the children will inherit from you.