University courses in the French way of life

[SaligoBay]

But not for us Brits, who are after all extremely insignificant in the greater French reality.

They're for imams, in an effort to keep French Islam moderate, safe, and integrated.

And soon, there will be police cells set up in each of France's 22 regions to keep an eye on all things Muslim, including halal butchers.  A pilot cell in Paris has already expelled 14 fundamentalists, including 7 imams.

"Today, of the 1,200 imams who practise in our country, 75% are not French and one-third do not even speak our language," Mr de Villepin told the daily Le Parisien. "This is not acceptable. In France we should have French imams, speaking French."

Do you think this is a clever move on Mr VilePong's part?   How would you feel if Mr Blair said that imams in the UK should all speak English?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1368735,00.html

[SaligoBay]

[Clarkkent]

 ... How would you feel if Mr Blair said that imams in the UK should all speak English?

This isn't like you, SB. You are five months out of date - the British are already there!

The following is taken from the BBC on 22 July:

Imams and other foreign ministers of religion will have to sit an English test, under new Home Office rules.

From September they will need to prove they have a "basic" grasp of spoken English before coming to the UK.

In two years the Home Office plans to raise the level of English required before entry from basic to "competent".

Home Secretary David Blunkett said the tests were necessary so ministers could speak for the communities they represented.

In the future ministers of religion may also be required to demonstrate a knowledge of the British way of life and other faiths.

 

[Tresco]

To me these proposals seem absurdly ill thought out, and will probably be unworkable in practice; you can't 'learn' culture, for a start. 

It seems there won't be any compulsion to attend classes, and anyway compulsion to study any subject is probably not the best way to really learn. There is no mention 'ministers' of other faiths, anywhere, so are these proposals just for muslims, if so the policy will be rightly regarded as prejudiced and discriminatory.

If they are after the fundamentalists, the 'hate' preachers who regard all non muslims as morally corrupt infidels, these measures will not stop them, but it may prevent moderate imams from coming to preach in France.

If they want to start chucking some money about, with the aim of fostering integration etc, they should start with language and education for women, and children who are newly arrived, measures against unemployment and ghettoisation, and finally with continuing to boot out those whose teaching goes against the law, or incites racial hatred. Same goes for UK.

[SaligoBay]

[quote]... How would you feel if Mr Blair said that imams in the UK should all speak English? This isn't like you, SB. You are five months out of date - the British are already there! The following is ta...[/quote]

Oops! 

OTOH, maybe I'm working on French time? 

Tresco - no it's true that you can't learn a culture just like that, but you can learn about a culture, and that would be a step in the right direction towards people living together in relative harmony, perhaps?

 

[Tresco]

Yes agreed SaligoBay, but in this instance, the proposal is only being directed at imams, why not Brits, or Americans?.  The French governments real fear is that the imams are leading young muslim men away from the moderate forms of islam, which probably 99% of muslims who actually practise, follow.

This clearly is sometimes the case, as is evidenced by the bigotry (and law-breaking) of the 'teachings' of the ones who have been thrown out, but those guys, the fanatics or whatever, are absolutely not going to be put off coming here by having to spend a few hours learning French history, sociology etc.

Yes, the government is 'trying' to do something about a problem, but as with the uneccessary hijab (or veil) fiasco, they haven't been honest about it, and they haven't thought it through. It will create resentment and increase alienation, rather than fostering integration (which is what they say the intention is).

Keep slinging the crazy guys out, and concentrate positive measures on the people who live here.  

[Jill<br><br>Jill (99)]

The same rules should apply to all immigrants to a country. How far these should go, I'm not really sure. You can't expect refugees to be competent in a countries language if they have left in a hurry. But people who plan to move to a country over a period of time certainly ought to learn as much of the language as possible. On the language side of things, my niece is a classroom assistant in England and at the moment has to give several hours support per week to a child who has come to England (I forget where from - an ex-USSR state, I think). My niece has no knowledge of other languages, but does have patience with other people's children. Do foreigners arriving in France, whatever the nationality get this sort of help? It seems an expensive way of helping people to learn the language, but I would say that they should be given help because when people are separated by religion and culture, it causes misundertandings and unrest.

Also, regarding culture - all countries are different and you can learn a bit about it from afar, but the only way to understand it is to integrate.

We have students in England to learn English and therefore it should be possible in France to run similar schools and colleges for people of all nationalities to learn French. By mixing together they would gain a better understanding of each others cultures.

Where prejudices exist though, there isn't much hope - from either side!

With regard to religious differences - extremism needs monitoring where resentment of other religions exist. Those who incite violence must be arrested or deported (not very safe if they are just loose elsewhere though). If people keep their religions to themselves and respect other people's beliefs, that is the only thing which would help in that respect. Some attitudes are too intolerant though and that is from various religions.

[Mpprh]

Hi

The APP already provide free French courses as well as many other programmes.

Our local one has a special class aimed at getting recently arrived immigrants up to the level needed to join the normal education system.

We shouldn't underestimate the challenge involved : many immigrants arrive unable to read & write their own language.

Peter