ID cards

[Most Holy]

From The Independent

Two grandmothers from Yorkshire face up to a year in prison after

becoming the first people to be arrested under the Government's latest

anti-terror legislation.

Helen John, 68, and Sylvia Boyes, 62, both veterans of the Greenham

Common protests 25 years ago, were arrested on Saturday after

deliberately setting out to highlight a change in the law which civil

liberties groups say will criminalise free speech and further undermine

the right to peaceful demonstration.(...)

...protests are curtailed under the Home Secretary's Serious Organised

Crime and Police Act. Campaigners expressed their outrage yesterday at

Charles Clarke's new law, which they say is yet another draconian

attempt to crack down on legitimate protest under the guise of the war

on terror.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article356033.ece

[hastobe]

Personally I think ID cards are pointless - nothing to do with the

concept of carying a card (which I would be quite happy to do) - but

because if law breakers are identified no effective action is taken

against them.  In the UK we seem to have this philosophy that you

can 'punish' wrong doers - but not in any way that might have any

detrimental effect on them.  Large numbers of individuals who

would easily meet the criteria for an ASBO are not pursued, those

driving without tax, MOT, insurance or even a valid driving licence get

a pathetic fine and a slap on the wrists, financial penalties / fines

etc that are paid at a nominal £1 a week - because, of course, we can't

cause unnecessary hardship...the list is endless.

IMHO anyone who is found guilty of anti-social behaviour should have

their housing benefit withdrawn.  Benefits should only be paid for

the first two children - if you choose to have anymore that is your

choice and your responsibility.  Penalties should be

penalties.  A life sentence should be a life sentence, the

penalties for driving without insurance shouldn't be a fraction of the

cost of the insurance premium.  Until we start dealing with

offenders properly there seems little point in having complex systems

to identify them.  We are just adding to the financial burden that

people like these already place on the law abiding members of society.

Just as an aside the Inland Revenue can't handle the identification

system it already has in place - we now have a system where many tax

payers now have two ID's - a national insurance number and a UTR. 

The computer systems designed

to work with National Insurance Numbers can't handle multiple

employments - so they had to introduce the UTR.  There are now

many cases of individuals being chased twice for the same tax - once by

reference to their UTR then again via their National Insurance

Number.  If UK government can't even get this right - what hope do

they have of running an effective ID system.  There have been

similar failings with the DLA (people issued with the wrong licence

type), the tax credit system, the CSA - I could go on...

Hastobe

[Eslier]

I would have no objection whatsoever about carrying an ID card although I do have my doubts about the British Government's ability to set up and administer a system that can work efficiently and to good purpose. An EU wide ID card sounds like a far more sensible idea to me. Personally, I subscribe to the "if you haven't got anything to hide then you haven't got anything to worry about" point of view. To be effective, it should be compulsory for all and issued free.

I carry my UK photocard driving license with me in France and use it on the odd occassion I am asked for ID to support a cheque. I've never had any problem using it although I often have to point out which is the "number" as it isn't obvious (starts with the first five letters of the surname).

[Gluestick]

Aye, there's the rub! As the Bard once wrote................

We're on the same side, Hastobe.

The whole concept of new Labour's "Joined Up Government" has been a complete fiasco from day one.

Despite absolute failure, with huge, complex IT systems, the same companies are being awarded new meg-million pound contracts; which are doomed to fail! Nice game if you can join in.

This is my core problem with ID cards, as I stated before: rather than ID cards being the Philospher's Stone universal panacea solution to crime, generally and terrorism, specifically (Teflon Tony and Clarke's central "For" argument), they will be yet another billion pound memorial to slavering incompetence of both government and their "preferred" contractors. Who, of course, will all be awarded baronetcies and lordships for joining in!

Meanwhile, civil liberties will be set back decades.

No honest person (me included) can object to carrying some form of credible ID: after all, I have my old National Identity Card, left over from WW II. Yes, Sadly, I am that old![Www] Only a lad at the time, you understand, my Mum registered for me![:-))] As had to be done.

However, I do soundly object to being compelled on the pain of arrest, to register to a system, that is hugely flawed from Day One!

 

[urko]

The British Scheme requires everyone to attend an interview and give the Government our fingerprints, and iris scans.  Just for a "licence to exist".

We will then have a continuing duty to inform the government of changes of address etc.

The database will record any time a check is made on our identity - which would make it extremely useful to hackers and other criminals and ID thieves.

The constitution of Germany forbids such a centralised database - ask yourself why.

"I take the view that it is part of being a good citizen, proving who you are, day in day out,"

Andy Burnam, Minister in Charge of ID Cards.
The Today Programme, BBC Radio 4, 28-03-06..

"The scheme will not track your life's activities. ID cards will be used when it is important to verify identity. That is not an everyday occurrence for the majority …"

Andy Burnam, Minister in Charge of ID Cards.
The Observer, Letters, March 26, 2006