Out of date information.

[Pun]

It was  satated on sky t.v. last night (a.place in the sun) dealing with a couple buying in France that the law changed in july 2001 ref the married french system with children,

If the husband dies,and the wife and any children alive.  The wife now has the right to remain in the property with all furniture until she dies,

the children cannot demand for the wife (widow) to leave the property as in the past old law they could.

This is good news.

[Teamedup]

[:D]LOL as you say, it is old news. Did  they mention anything about the death taxes?

[Cat]

It's called usufruct Pun, and you can read all about it here http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/641727/ShowPost.aspx

[Will]

It's not quite as simple as that, unfortunately, and it has been discussed many times. The TV programmes often give misleading information and half-truths unfortunately.

The law referred to applies to French marriages under the standard French marriage contract - under the Hague convention those married in Britain are regarded differently, equivalent to the Frence séparation de biens contract. This is why many British couples buying houses in France opt to change their marriage contract to the equivalent of the standard French one - commonly known as the communauté universelle, or CU, though its proper title is rather longer (communauté universelle avec attribution de la communauté).

The CU is not suitable for everybody - for instance it is not usually recommended for those who have children from previos marriages, because they can easily overturn it should they desire, or those with businesses, because the marital home is then exposed to business risks.

See http://www.pannone.com/services/shwServiceFAQs.asp?SID=15 (last section) for the legal view.

[Pun]

Hi  Will,

The t.v. bit was about a couple who have not married yet, and I think 4 children was on the womans side of things,

so as you say it's more involved as you go. they asked the question ref  the law in france if one dies, and thats what made my ears stick up when they said the laws changed.

just thought I'd pass it on.

Many thanks for your reply.

[Pun]

Hi Teameup,

I didnt hear any word ref death taxes, but I did read in the ex-pats paper I get every month ref tax if you take french resident, and you own british   prem/bonds,

It said that if you hold british premium bonds and you take french residence (ie pay french tax /medical etc) and you should win the prem/bonds then you pay french tax on the win.

I didnt know this and Im wondering how many more ex- pats know about it,

 

[Pun]

Hi ,Cat

Many thanks, Ive had a good read of changes as you kindly provided, Its some reading isnt it/ but well worth knowing.

once again thanks .

[Will]

Pun - if the couple were not married then I think the TV programme was even more misleading. There has been an option for unmarried couples to take out a PACS introduced fairly recently, but I have known of unmarried couples in France, without a PACS, where one partner has died (since 2001), and the survivor has had to leave the house - even if only to pay the inheritance tax that becomes due. Of course, when there are children involved, it can get even more complicated. Usufruct, as clarified in the 2001 law, only applies if the couple were married (it's a moot point whether or not it covers PACS agreements as these came in later).. 

The whole issue of succession, marriage, and inheritance tax in France is a minefield, and the law is changing all the time (more new laws are coming in as from Jan 2007). The TV programmes are being irresponsible if they suggest otherwise. I agree that it is old news but in a slight defence of the TV companies, might not the programme have been a repeat of one made soon after the 2001 law came in?

[Pun]

Hi  Will,

just taking a break from this painting (kitchen) I think your right about the mine field bit, It was just over a year ago we signed for the gite, and the notire was telling me then that the law was changing very soon so that all empty buildings no matter who or how many people own them would be paying land tax  as so many families couldnt agree about selling and these buildings just stood empty and wasted for years, but if the owner had to pay a yearly rate/tax they wouldnt be so keen on leaving this building for so long.

I must admit here in dept23 limousin (very much countryside) we see so many old farm houses ect just falling apart,

it,s a crying shame.

[Cassis]

[quote user="Will "]

many British couples buying houses in France opt to change their marriage contract to the equivalent of the standard French one - commonly known as the communauté universelle, or CU, though its proper title is rather longer (communauté universelle avec attribution de la communauté).

[/quote]

How exactly do married couples do that - change their marriage contract to a CU, I mean??

We declared ourselves as married under CU when we completed our property purchase at the notaire and that was noted - I always presumed that was it.

Is it?

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

We had to sign a document prepared by the notaire to change our statut matrimonial to CU. Then in the acte authentique for our land purchase it specifically referred to that document as establishing our statut.

Just declaring yourself as married under a CU may (?) be as effective as declaring yourself divorced to avoid bigamy charges.[Www]

 

[Cassis]

I think I'd better contact the notaire and check.  I signed so many

things that day I've no idea if we signed a separate document changing

our marital status.  I thought it was all in the house purchase

contract as the agent and notaire asked us if we wanted our marriage noted as CU.

[Will]

Yes, you should sign a document, and make an extra payment, in order to register your marriage regime. It is a simpler and cheaper process when done as part of a house purchase, but can be done at any time (though some notaires apparently don't like doing it separately)

[Cassis]

Hmmm.  I don't remember that.  Definitely a trip to the notaire to check, then!  I'll put Jude's "accident" on hold for now ...

[Will]

Yes, always as well to check. As you say, there is so much signing and paying happening around that time that it could easily have happened without realising it, or, on the other hand, been overlooked by the notaire.

Hope it gets resolved.