How it is done in France

[woolybanana]

Recently I asked for tenders for a small job inside my house and received two replies. Unfortunately one was very slow so the first one got the job. What was interesting was that the second was exactly the same as the first, but with one small proviso - stuck to the devis was a post-it note saying that the job would be over €100 cheaper if done without tax.

[stella]

working  for  black  money  is  quite  normal,  but  ask for a bigger  discount, say  150-200  !!

However,  remember if anything goes wrong,  you're  out  of  luck  if  you  wnat  to appeal  to  some  french authority....you have to rely  on the word  that the  worker  will  come  back to  fix  it...normally  its  ok,  but  if an  insurance claim  is  involved, then  its gets tricky...

[Chancer]

€100, 150, 200 it all depends on the value of the job whether he is supplying materials etc, its best to try and calculate what the benefit to him will be for a cash job and try to divide it in two.

If there are significant materials involved he may propose only part of the job for cash and in that case you both get some degree of protection but only for the devi price, not the real price. 

If there are significant materials that he is supplying and he proposes the whole job for cash then you should try to negotiate an even lower price as he will be losing these amongst the other jobs, claiming back the TVA on them and not paying his cotisations on their value as well, the artisan may well not see it that way but unless he is buying them somewhere for cash, and in which case he would ask you to, then it is indeed the situation.

The only problem with the second scenario is it tends to be the greedy/opportunistic guys that havnt really thought it through, the ones that go bust because there is not enough coming in (aside from the cash) to pay their suppliers, tyou dont want this to happen in the middle of your job.

Out of interest Woolly, what do you estimate the labour value of the job to be? It would be interesting to see how French artisans see the division of benefit.

I had a guy do some taping and jointing for me, we agreed a cash price with me supplying all the materials, he was insistant on me giving him 50% up front as he had heard what the English are like and he reconed it was an equitable sharing of risk because I might refuse to pay him once he had finished the job.

I told him that I knew a lot more Picards than he did English andgiven their reputation there was no way that he was going to walk away with a couple of hundred Euros, I proposed and he begrudgingly accepted that when he arrived to start work I would show him the money, at the end of each day we would do a valuation and I would weigh him in, and as a gesture of good faith I would buy his lunch, vin à volonté compris each day, I reckon it was the latter that swung it.

[bubbles]

What an excellent, cunning plan.

I'll remember that!

[woolybanana]

I slung out the devis I'm afraid, but for some 20 plus square metres of chape (cementing to take floor tiles) which is quite deep and waterproofed, he wanted something like €450 or about €320 on the black. The work had to be accurate and clean though as the tiles have to be well laid to take the new staircase eventually. Other work I will do myself except for the electrics for which I have a qualified guy, legit, and the jointing which will be done by a mate as a favour(!)

[virginia.c]

May be worth checking with Normie exactly what he understands by the term 'jointing'. He may assume Wooly that this practice takes place over a barrel....