Integration, isolation, friendships... (offshot from the DSK thread)

[cooperlola]

[quote user="idun"]

Coops, that is exactly what happened to us when we had spent two weeks or so in Brittany and drove across to Normandy. A shock to us all, even the kids asked what was wrong with people. Truthfully, I expected to have to give a  n a z i  salute to some people, so officious were they.  And it didn't get any better no matter where we were, well apart from the American Cemetary. 

Ofcourse I could end up there again, as these things happen in life, but I will be mentally prepared. Give me the rudest of parisien waiters any day.

[/quote][:)]

As my love affair with France began in Normandy (it's where I spent my hols and learnt French as a child) when I stayed with a family near Le Havre, I have a different view of the region from yours. When I was in hospital in Rouen (where I was well looked after by caring staff), they came over to see me even though they are in their eighties now.

 Certainly, I have not found that people are ruder in Alencon than Le Mans.

[EmilyA]

Well I have to say our experience of living in Normandy is nothing like that. We live in a very friendly, farming village and have lovely neighbours amongst whom we have some good friends. We go for walks once a week together, we go to gym together, we have meals together. I am on the conseil municipal and have never felt anything other than fully accepted. I sympathize with people who live somewhere that isn't like that and I don't want to sound in the least bit smug, but have to defend Normandy and the Normans!

[Sara]

Lucky you Emily, but would you defend their mad driving......?[;-)] I don't know whether it is just here in Normandy but they drive like lunatics, too fast and sit on your back bumper even in rain or snow....mad....While the pedestrians just walk out into the road without looking. Help.....[:-))]

[just john]

I am staggered at how arrogant and judgemental some of the comments are,

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/robertburns/works/to_a_louse/

[EmilyA]

Mmm, don't think Normandy driving is any worse than anywhere else in France, a bit dozy round here and they always look surprised to see another car on the road. I have a theory that is it worse in towns at this time of year, because they have come back from holiday and are feeling fed up...

[cooperlola]

A wise man, that Mr Burns.[:)]

[Frenchie]

Just John,  I have PMd you.

[idun]

Normandy, no, yet to meet anyone decent there even half aimable. I knew normans where I lived in France, usually rather cold and always vous'd everyone, even their own families.

I could write a book about Normandy, and what happened to us there, but I cannot write, so I won't.[:)]

edit, just john, that is exactly how I felt in Normandy, that people were arrogant and judgemental and they were, make no mistake very very rude and ignorant.

[just john]

For those not familiar with phonetically reading the Scottish dialect[:D] my attempt at translation . . .

If only someone would give us,
the power to see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a faux pas free us,
And - foolish notion, what airs and graces,
in attitude and swank would leave us,
And even devotion!

[idun]

just john, I knew how others saw us, the accueil we had in Brittany was wonderful, we had a laugh, we were treat with courtesy and kindness and some curiosity, what with my english accent and the other three sounding french, remember that when we were there the great invasion hadn't started. All in all it was very agreeable for all concerned, which is how a holiday should be, or life should be really.

[cooperlola]

It's funny because generally, poetry winds me up and I just want to yell: "Say it in prose if you've got something to say.  No need for the poncy delivery."  However, with Rabbi Burns I make an exception.  I guess because I've been singing his songs (well, before my voice was destroyed following  my accident) for forty years and more, and the fact that he was such a wise man to boot.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="idun"]

Normandy, no, yet to meet anyone decent there even half aimable. I knew normans where I lived in France, usually rather cold and always vous'd everyone, even their own families. Do you think it is a general fact ?? The answer is NO .

 

edit, just john, that is exactly how I felt in Normandy, that people were arrogant and judgemental and they were, make no mistake very very rude and ignorant. All of them ???  ....................... [Www]

[/quote]

 What a sweeping generalisation.........

[Sara]

[quote user="idun"]

that is exactly how I felt in Normandy, that people were arrogant and judgemental and they were, make no mistake very very rude and ignorant.

[/quote]

Don't want to start another war, but yes I have to agree. Unlike Idun we won't move to another part of France. I will not pay the notaire/tax man 10% and the estate agent 5% (or more)  that will be losing 15% of my main asset. I want my son to inherit as much as I can give him and not to any one else...

 Maybe we will rent somewhere else in France for a short term and then hopefully one day return back to England , somewhere in the West country, as I am missing my coastal walks with a cornish pastie in my ruck sack...... We can't go back yet not until my son is 11 and ready for secondry school, I want him to have a very good understanding of french, otherwise I would feel we have wasted his time . 

[Christine Animal]

Maybe on this forum there is a certain clique

But there are comments starting to make me feel sick

Have a look in the mirror and see yourself  for once

Not from Robbie Burns, but just a simple dunce   [:)]

 

[6]

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

Maybe on this forum there is a certain clique

But there are comments starting to make me feel sick

Have a look in the mirror and see yourself  for once

Not from Robbie Burns, but just a simple dunce   [:)]

 

[6]

 

[/quote][:D] Touché (Edit : Apart from the dunce bit of course, Christine.[:)])

[Sara]

Actually to be fair I have visited other areas of Normandie and have loved it, I love the Manche and found the  people lovely. I  love lots of areas in Normandy and people look nice and gentil I have felt very saddened that we moved to an unfriendly area.  It is luck, our old gardener, lovely chap says the same thing, he was born in our village. Does not have many friends as he is very quiet and shy.He hardly ever drives to our local town, as he does not know any one, there are a lot of people that have moved in from bigger Cities.  We live in the area 27, Normandie is a big place........ Incidentally Emily which region do you live in ? 

[cooperlola]

I just have a very big problem with the concept that people from a particular region (expand that to country and you can see where this might end up) being all of the same character or disposition.  For one thing it's statistically pretty unlikely and about as believable as all people born in the same month being the same [Www], which I also know many people believe with a passion.

[idun]

Now I had had a lovely holiday, was in a good mood and we drove around and found a camp site. We had been mixing camping and hotels for the previous weeks. Walked in to the reception and I would have bonjoured and smiled and started asking if they had any spaces.I'm not beautiful or anything like that, but I am pleasant enough looking and smile easily, that is what he got.  First thing I had said to me in the most officious of loud voices was 'PAPIERS', that along with a glare! And he wouldn't tell me if he had any places until I had got my carte de sejour out.

I'm not always quick or sharp and was taken aback. And that was the start of it.

I even went to the gendarmerie to ask why I had been treat so, and then I got it from them too, the anglais second home owners doing le fisc out of money because they weren't registered when having paying guests, the red brigade members who had been discovered because in Normandy, they stuck by the rules, to the letter, and I nearly did a hi t ler salute as I left, such was their tone. I felt like they wanted me to. The start of what should have been our holiday in Normandy. Then a haridon who said she had space in her restaurant and then we were shoved in like sardines as she sat at a pulpit type thing surveying and shouting at staff and clients alike, while we had a mediocre and expensive meal. Arromanches when I went into the tourist office and was told that the mulberry harbour had been built by the germans, when she could be bothered to speak as I was obviously a bother.  Examples and we did do a lot of the dept.

I'll not post the rest, but I have never been treat so consistently badly in my life. There is no excuse, no justification. The organised things ran on time, where as in Brittany it was bordelic, but what the heck when I was happy, it didn't matter.

I don't care how anyone else finds Normandy, if the normans are happy to treat pleasant enough holiday makers like that, then tant pis, I'd never ever recommend anyone go there.

[Pommier]

I was starting to think that there must be another Normandy to the one where we lived! On the whole we found Normandy people to be kind and friendly if maybe a bit reserved (but that's probably more of a country person thing)

[Pommier]

[quote user="cooperlola"]I just have a very big problem with the concept that people from a particular region (expand that to country and you can see where this might end up) being all of the same character or disposition.  For one thing it's statistically pretty unlikely and about as believable as all people born in the same month being the same [Www], which I also know many people believe with a passion.[/quote]

Did you see the episode of Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads where Terry started off moaning about the Germans, then the French then southerners, then someone else, until it came down to he hated the person next door?

A bit similar.

[Sara]

Cooperlola, yes I hear what your saying, I think where I live (in the town ) there must be lots of nice people but people walk with their heads down. People don't want eye contact and rarely say bonjour, I am nearly always the first to smile . It was not like this ten years ago, but in the last 9 years my local town has expanded by 4,000 people!! I read this in our local paper. So people don't know one another, and seemingly don't want to know.

You must have noticed the same thing happened in England? Where I grew up in the 1970's (near London) people were friendlier everyone said hello as they walked passed you in the street. When I go back now, people look down as if they're looking for someting on the pavement. It is unfortunately a facet of modern life... However, I noticed when I visited Bridport last year in Dorset the people seemed happier, relaxed and alot friendlier. People we did not know walked passed us smiled and said hello......Amazing...lovely.....

What I tend to do is look at the person walking pass smile, if he or she smiles back then I would always say Bonjour first . I am quite shy.

[just john]

[quote user="Pommier"]  Did you see the episode of Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads where Terry started off moaning about the Germans, then the French then southerners, then someone else, until it came down to he hated the person next door? A bit similar.[/quote]

He's still miserable now, obviously didn't get enough fishy on a little dishy[:P]

[cooperlola]

Sara, what you describe reminds me of the way I felt when I first lived in the South of England.   But it was, of course, more a matter of convention and tradition than people being universally unpleasant.  It was just not the norm to introduce yourself to the neighbours and pop around to their homes when the fancy took you, as it was in my native Lancashire.  When I got past the reserve, I made many good and lasting friendships.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Sara"]

You must have noticed the same thing happened in England? Where I grew up in the 1970's (near London) people were friendlier everyone said hello as they walked passed you in the street. When I go back now, people look down as if they're looking for someting on the pavement. It is unfortunately a facet of modern life.

[/quote]I blame the media (best to blame them for everything[:D]) for a lot of this - certain branches of it anyway.  We seem more inclined to believe that everybody is a potential enemy (or rather burglar/rapist/attacker/murderer or whatever) than a potential friend, the latter of which is, of course, far more likely to be the case.

[idun]

CA I'm not in a clique and have over the years made quite a few bad comments about Normandie, knowing that people lived there or had second homes there. I've never hidden my dislike.

Treat me right and I am like a faithful dog, a devoted and loyal friend, very loyal. Treat me badly and like an effelump, I don't forget and will always remind myself to stay away and keep others away from the bad. I never expect everywhere to be perfect, I'm not and no one is and nowhere is, but somewhere or someone being consistently bad , is quite another thing and I'll stay away from it as best I can.