Vichy France

[woolybanana]

I had all but forgotten the effect that Paxton had on the debate in France. Worth a reread I think:

http://www.historytoday.com/martin-evans/robert-paxton-outsider

[just john]

While trying to discuss the history of the area I live with a few french friends, asking what it was like locally etc I received little response, later when just two of us were talking I was told that there were many stories good and bad, of both the brave resistance (blew up a German supply train locally, a local Dutch author has written a book of the history of area) and others of assisting in hiding people and also of giving others away; ''Best not to talk openly until you know which side people are on, feelings are still there under the surface. . .''

[The Riff-Raff Element]

We bought a ruin last year for conversion into a gite. It came complete with a garage under which there is a cave with rather steep steps. A few months later I was working in the garden when one of the neighbours (widely reckoned to be a bit barmy, but to my mind as sharp as they come, given her advanced age) told me she recalled that during the war the then owner was found dead at the bottom of those stairs one morning. "Being too friendly with the Germans could make the steps slippery, you see," she explained, with a rather nasty leer.

[Patf]

I sometimes think that the wickedest thing the n-a-z-i-s did was to turn father against son, brother against brother, and neighbour against neighbour. By their policy of retribution.

Thank God they didn't come over to UK.

[Mr Ice-ni]

Thank Dog - Sir O Mosley and his brownshirts marching through Stamford Hill were only a figment of my imagination. And the Duke of Windsor of course.

John

[Quillan]

[quote user="Patf"]I sometimes think that the wickedest thing the n-a-z-i-s did was to turn father against son, brother against brother, and neighbour against neighbour. By their policy of retribution.
Thank God they didn't come over to UK.
[/quote]

Some may say (not me by the way) that this was exactly what Thatcher did during the miners strike.

[Frecossais]

I haven't read Paxton's books, but I found the article very interesting. That period of French history holds a fascination for me, for a long time I bought into the WW2 films and TV series that glorified the work of the Resistance and made it seem that the whole of France supported them.

Historians have access to the paperwork of leaders and get an overview of what was happening, but I do believe that further down the line there were many, many ordinary people who still retained their humanity in those terrible circumstances. (People aren't that different today: look in UK how many people demonstrated their opposition to the war in Iraq. I'm ashamed with hindsight that I didn't.)

I haven't read much of what happened from 1939-45 in other countries occupied by Germany. How different or similar were people's experiences in the Netherlands, Belgium, Czechoslovakia etc?

Woolybanana, have you any recommended literature on these?

[Frederick]

I read a book about the occupation of Jersey and it seems that farmers who supplied food to the German were labeled .. Although they had no choice but to supply the German Army

Even in recent years a guy spotted in the street might be referred to as "The son of the traitor " if his dad was a farmer . I imagine France today is no different

[Joe]

Why would a former PM be even mentioned in the same context of Nazi's?

[woolybanana]

Cheap point scoring?