French Inheritance Law again!

[Cadeby]

Having spent hours searching through all the inheritance-related posts on this forum, and the French Notaires website I cannot find an answer to the following scenario ( my own ) - so apologies if this has already been covered ! :

Property bought in joint names, now worth 300,000 euros. Husband has 2 children from previous marriage. No children from our current marriage.

If my husband were to pre-decease me, would I only be entitled to the ownership of 1/4 of all the property ( ie. 75,000 euros ) , or all of my half plus 1/4 of his half ( ie. 225,000 euros ) ?

In other words, can my husbands children only inherit from his half-share, given that the property was purchased in joint-names?

 

Thanks in anticipation

Helen. 

 

[Llwyncelyn]

I think you will witness lots and lots of replies to this question.  It is very similar to my own position in that we own a house outright here in France no mortgage that sort of thing.  I was married before but no children my wife was married twice before with a child from both unions.  I have tried to cover the position by a very substantial life policy written in the UK before we left and with a discretionary trust and where the Trustees know my wishes and views

However the French approach is to view a house as a place in which to live our approach (our seemingly ) approach in the UK) is to view such matters as to how we outstrip the Revenue (a very worthy approach) and limit our taxation.  Here in France there are various views as to how to outstrip their codes and which have been in place since a very long time. They however take a view that a house is a place in which to live.

Obviously one would not wish to give anything to the Republique unless absolutely necessary but in one form of the another I have witnessed this forum from somewhat of a long distance and there are varying views.  We bought en tontine which gives the remaining spouse use and interest I think of the house and until they then go wherever they are going!  If I remain after my wife then die the Republique cuts in and asks for a substantial sum and obviously that would limit what my wife's children would benefit from.

However my view is that life is for living and acting on very appropriate advice our wills in the UK are so constructed as to make sure that there is essentially a Chinese Wall between the UK and France and what remains in the UK by way of investments and some rented properties go to my wife's children.  From my part I do not intend to spend the rest of what is available to me worrying about who gets what.  I am probably wrong but like lots of individuals on this forum we have all worked hard but it does appear to me that as a nation we take a view that we should automatically leave something to those who are left behind and perhaps we are then valued as to what we leave.  Notices in the Times and the Telegraph then follow.

Finally you will see responses which say take appropriate legal advice.  If anyone knew the absolute answer they would be truly very very wealthy individuals.

Saying that I know of a Tutor at an Oxford college who was single and he constructed a will the effect of which that all of his assets here in France went to his old Oxford college. He used Paris notaires and no problems!

[Sunday Driver]

If your house was purchased jointly "en division", where you each own your half of the house, then on the death of your husband, you will own your half plus 1/4 of his half.  That means you will then own your house jointly with the children of your husband's former marriage.  Under French law, the children can then force you to sell the house to realise their share of the property or ask to be bought out.  You can prevent this situation by obtaining a life interest (usefruit) over the property.  All parties will be liable to inheritance tax.

 

[suein56]

[quote user="Cadeby"]

In other words, can my husbands children only inherit from his half-share, given that the property was purchased in joint-names?

[/quote]

Yes

 

[Loiseau]

Having actually lived through the application of this after my husband's death (he had three children from a first marriage, and we had one jointly), I can relate my own experience, for what it's worth.  But who's to say it would be the same for you...

I was awarded my half of our French holiday home, plus half of his half.

The other half of his half (still with me?) had to be divided between his four (3+1) children, and one slice over (which came to me).
So I got 80 per cent, and the children 20 per cent (5 per cent each). (There's always one "slice" more than there are children, I believe)

We had been advised to make a "donation entre epoux" some years earlier, which gave "enjoyment" of house and possessions to the surviving spouse. This meant that the children were not disinherited, but that they could not force the survivor to sell, and could have had to wait for their meagre inheritance till the second party died.  It was great to have done that, as it seemed to simplify things for the notaire in the aftermath.

In the end, as we had been in the throes of selling a bit of the property at the same time, I decided to buy the four children out (i.e. paid them the shares they were due, and kept the house). They had a tiny bit of tax to pay, but not much.

Apparently, as the house is now totally mine, when I die it goes entirely to my own child (who has already had her payout along with her three half-brothers, as above!). I told the notaire that I would want to leave it jointly to the four of them, but he said Absolutely Not.  Seemingly my three stepchildren are not seen as blood relatives of mine, and would have to pay 60 per cent tax on anything they inherited from me.  [:(]

I do not know if the French inheritance rules apply to any property you still have in the UK, once you become French-resident. Ours was just a holiday home.

Angela