New family freedom

[Clarkkent]

This is a more suitable place for this than the first place it was posted.

As from 1 Jan French people have been able to give their children either the father's or mother's name ... or both. But look at the bureaucratic control involved:

The following is from  Le Nouvel Observateur.

 

La loi autorisant désormais les parents a dormer au premier de leur enfant soit le nom du père, soit celui de la mere, soit les deux, dans l’ordre de leur choix entre en vigueur au 1 er janvier, rompant avec une tradition patronymique remontant au XIe siècle. Ne samedi 1er janvier, Jules, premier enfant de M. Dupont et Mile Durand, pourra s’appeler Jules Dupont, mais aussi Jules Durand, Jules Dupont--Durand (avec un double tiret), ou encore Jules Durand--Dupont. Les textes réglementaires ne parleront plus de “patronyme” (nom du père) mais de “nom de famille”.

 

Heavens!

Fancy having to put a double hyphen into your surname! I wonder how many software applications won't cope?

 

- Le double nom de famille reste une option, que les parents peuvent demander en remplissant une “declaration conjointe de choix de nom”. En cas de désaccord, c’est le nom du père qui prévaut.

 

- En l’absence de declaration conjointe, rien ne change: si les parents sont manes, i’enfant légitime prendra le nom du père. S’ils vivent en union libre, l’enfant naturel prendra le nom du père en cas de reconnaissance commune. Sinon, il portera le nom du parent qui le reconnaIt en premier.

 

- Les parents doivent choisir le nom de famille a la naissance de ieur premier enfant. Ses frères et soeurs porteront le même nom que iui, pour des questions dunité de la fratrie.

 

You can't have children in the same family with different surnames. It isn't tidy.

 

 

And, it seems, a new double-barrelled name will only last for one generation. Subsequent children must choose which half they will keep. 

... It all seems rather Prussian to me: that which is not forbidden is compulsory.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Does anyone here know anyone French who thinks this is a good thing?

I've heard a lot of chit-chat about the changes, none of it positive.

[Tourangelle]

My (French) brother-in-law thinks it is such a good idea that he and his partner are getting it done for their 15 month old son.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Getting what done?

Puzzled.

[Tourangelle]

sorry not very clear, I must have been half asleep.  They are having both names legally as the surname for their son, who from the outset had both as his nom usuel. I don't know what exactly they have to do, but apparently up to June 2006 it is possible to change for children under 13.

[Clarkkent]

but apparently up to June 2006 it is possible to change for children under 13.

Yes this is the case. A similar law was enacted in Germany in 1976 - 10 years later less than 2% of couples had bothered to use it.

Under English law you have the right to call yourself anything you like (providing it is not for an unlawful purpose) and there are devices such as deed poll to enable this. What seems so strange about this new French facility is that you must signal that you have joined two names by having to include a double hyphen in the new name. Also, anyone possessing a new double-barrelled surname cannot pass it on to his (or her) offspring. Only one name can go forward to the next generation.

[Teamedup]

We have friends who are De-Pxxxxxx-de-Bxxxxxxxx, and their noble name passes from one generation to the next with all it's barrelling.

I cannot help wondering who exactly will do this. For those who have children and are not married, it still won't make their children legitimate will it.

[Tourangelle]

it depends what you mean by legitimate.  It wont make their parents married, that's for sure, but if a father "recognises" his child before the birth here, I think it that makes it the same as if the parents were married with regard to the parent's rights and the child's.  My brother in law's partner is Norwegian, and their last names go well together; having chosen a first name for their son that is recognised in both languages, they wanted to give him both surnames so he belongs to both cultures. 

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Thank you Janealain, that makes sense.

I have been given to understand that when the father recognised the child at birth the child was given his name regardless of whether the parents were married. The child took the mother's name if and only if she was unmarried and the father did not recognise the child.

I think that what is new is the right to give the mother's name (regardless of legitimacy) and the right to give a double-barrelled one. (Perhaps that should be double--barrelled?!)

[Teamedup]

I'm not sure exactly how this has worked up until now.

We have unmarried friends with three kids. Their first has his mother's nom de famille, they lived together when this baby was born and this son is his father's. But as I say the eldest still has his mother's name. The next two have their father's name. The eldest is always 'known as' his father's nom de famille, but officially his name is still his mother's.

This new law wouldn't affect this family anyway, as the kids are grown up. Nor does the recognition by the Papa in anyway stop them being natural children.

 

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

I think that you were stuck with the surname you were first registered under - and I imagine you still are in general, although there is a transition period where people can change existing childrens' names.

I thought that if you weren't recognised pdq (for whatever reason, if the father had joined the foreign legion and didn't find out he had a child until after registration for example) then you were given your mother's surname and kept it for life; this is no longer the case, if it ever was.

Your own marriage doesn't change your name and neither does your parents' marriage (or indeed divorce).

There are (limited) circumstances under which a French person can change their surname by choice:
http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F1656.html?n=Famille&l=N10&n=Nom%20de%20famille%20et%20pr%E9nom&l=N151

[Teamedup]

 I hadn't realised that one could change the name here. Pity the french authorities won't accept changes on UK certificates, their inflexibility can't 'alf complicate people's lives.