merliauds Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I'll try and explain our situation briefly - We bought a plot, complete with architects drawings and planning permission, in September 2003. We started to build in the summer of 2004. We have now finished our house. We live here permanently.The plot of land immediately next to ours has recently been sold and the new owner has employed a "Géometre-Expert Foncier DPLG - Topographe" (quote from the headed paper) to establish the boundary. This company has taken measurements and concluded that our boundary has been wrongly set a few metres into the neighbouring plot. This implies that our driveway and access to the rear of our property is not on our land. This company have also concluded that we have a few metres at the back of our plot that we weren't aware of, and gives us ownership of the access road between other neighbours. We would obviously prefer to keep our driveway!We have a meeting (amicable I hope) scheduled with the new owner to discuss this issue on Tuesday 9th June. We would like advice as to our legal situation. For example, have we been established on the plot with the accepted boundaries (EDF had no problem in deciding where to position their meter, for example, and the new owner didn't question the boundaries before he bought the plot) for long enough for this to be considered right of ownership? (Not sure of the technical term for what amouts to "squatter's rights".)I hope we can reach a compromise, but the new owner has bought several plots within the immediate area and is a retired local business man with lots of family connections. We don't want to fall out with him, but we don't want to be ganged up on by the locals either. We've have a good relationship with this guy (we used his services when we first moved over and have been on good terms since then) and need to come to an agreeable conclusion for everybody. We have our English neighbours, from whom we bought the plot, coming to the meeting. We are going to ask a friend who has better French than mine, and mine's not too bad, to come to this meeting. Is there anyone with experience in this kind of problem who would be able to help us too - I could offer a nice lunch!What advice can anyone give? How can I establish the boundaries without employing a Géometre? Is the company mentioned earlier recognised by the government as an official authority? Are there any organisations that can represent us in this kind of situation? Would it help to go to the marie to get their support, official planning permission documents, boundary maps? I've looked at the website link (cadestre) but didn't think this was terrible helpful for our situation. I would be very grateful for any advice and help with this. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 The géomètre is, by law, the only official who is allowed to determine boundaries.This will give you the background: Le géomètre-expert en FranceSorry I can't offer more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 The boundaries are established by the plan cadastre and are confirmed by a visit by the geometre expert who will have placed official bornes at all the relevant waypoints, in exceptional circumstances if he concludes that the plan cadastre was in error i.e an erroneous dimension placing a boundary fence smack in the middle of an old church for instance then the plan cadastre will be updated.The geometres findings will in almost all probability be correct, whilst the cost has been met by your new neighbour as a prudent precaution before building I bet you now wish that you had done the same.I hope that you manage to negotiate an amiable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merliauds Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Thanks for your comments, Clair and JR. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! I certainly wish that we'd known about the existence of such a precaution when we bought the plot - we would at least have known what questions to ask. Take note, anyone who's in the process of buying property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The property on one side of our place and the parcelle on the other side have recently been sold and I seem to recall being told that any sale now, if the bornage hasn't been done for ?two years, it has to be updated for the cadastre. For some reason, October 07 comes to mind for the new law coming in.The bornage really helped us - effectively, two other people paid for our property to be clearly marked. On the peoperty side we found we had acquired a strip 88 metres long by 3 metres wide, clearly marked by an ancient wall, which meant some of the overhanging trees were ours and we could get them cut down.On the parcelle side we also made a strip about 40 metres long and up to 6 metres wide in the wooded back of the garden, which again means we can have a chain saw party. Interestingly, the 'developer' of this side has run out of money and has sold on, met the new potential neighbours on Sunday who are going to build on it, all very amicable. Our hedge on that side actually has grown right over the boundary but as it's so well established and thick in places, they're cool about it because it serves their purpose also.Meriaulds, I'm sure that if you explain the position and unless the new owner is going to be completely difficult, you can organise some form of document with a noraire which gives you rights of access over the land without being able to claim ownership so he maintains his ownership, you just get the use, the same for the new bit of the property that you have acquired.Edie: You don't say where you are or how long you've lived in the house, may be helpful. And have you signed the new papers yet which marks out the new boundaries. If you haven't, that can strengthen your hand somewhat tho your new neighbour may regard not signing as a bit provocative but it does give you some bargaining power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merliauds Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Thank you Tony. The information about the cadastre being updated is very interesting. We live near Les Eyzies de Tayac and bought the plot in 2003, started building in 2004 and moved in in 2005. We haven't signed anything yet and I feel confident that we can come to an amicable arrangement, as you suggest with rights of access over the affected part of the land. Wish us luck for next week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I know several of the councillors in your area, if you need any direct advice (the senior guy there is seriously bi-lingual and his wife is British) from one of those, happy to put you in touch with him. PM or email if you need contact details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I was going to suggest getting your own expert opinion from another geometre. But this would cost obviously.Or offer to buy the piece of land in question from your new neighbour. Again, the costs (legal etc) might be prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merliauds Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hi TonyDid you get my pm? It would be great to have the contact details you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hi, yes I did, sorry, been so busy, will send you details tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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